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hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
 Posted - 04/11/2008 : 11:34:57 PM
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Stay Tuned... |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2008 : 08:25:47 AM
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I think we're talking about two different things in this thread, but connecting them because of the emotions involved.
On one hand, non-Hawaiians participate in Hawaiian music, adding to it and taking away from it, making money off of it, perpetuating it and enjoying it in both the traditional scene and modern permutations. I think it's great. Almost anyone can hear the beauty of the music. It's almost irresistible.
Separate from that issue is the feeling among some Hawaiians, now only a small minority of those who live in Hawaii, that the music has lost-and is still losing-some authenticity and soul because non-Hawaiians are learning the music from books and DVDs (not Hawaiians), profiting from it and slowly changing it and it's definition to something foreign. Most Hawaiians see the music as a vessel which carries the history, language and culture to the next generation. Sadly, we are watching the Hawaiian race being bred out of existence (I'm hapa), and it coincides with the musical metamorphosis going on. I share some of Peter's heartfelt sadness about the current trends in Hawaiian music, of which slack key is only a small part. We shouldn't use these feelings as an excuse to denigrate the valid participation of non-Hawaiians. Music is a living, changing thing. I let my ear and my love of Hawaii decide what I like, what I will buy and what I will learn and play. And I will play the songs of my family so that the next generation can hear them.
Jesse Tinsley |
Edited by - hapakid on 04/12/2008 08:30:19 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2008 : 09:31:52 AM
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Jeese - you have done well introducing your boys to music. Kids who grow up playing an instrument and loving music, no matter what kind, grow up to be fine people.
No different for me than a half Calabrese, half Siciliano boy from Garfield Hts., OH playing clawhammer banjo or mountain dulcimer. He doesn't play concertina, accordion or mandolin like someone would imagine to be the realm of the Italians. Nor does he sing or even care for opera (except Grand Ole'). But our girls have grown up with so many kinds of music -- hillbilly, Italian such as Tarantella, Funiculi Funiula, Ce Na Luna, they've grown up with Pete Seeger singing Abi Yo-Yo, with Johnny Rivers singing "Apple Tree" and Braddah Iz singing all the good stuff he sings. They know who Gabby, Bla, Cyril and Martin are. They know who Minnie Pearl and Grandpa Jones are. They know Django Reinhardt. And then they know Kurt Cobain, Tori Amos and Nora Jones. They even know Foster and Allen.
The Hawaiian music, and indeed, that of any "pure" culture is getting watered down in this day of "world" music. One of our collective kuleana is to make sure your progeny know about their heritage. How sad I am that I blew off my jupuna when they wanted to talk story about the old days. Now they are gone and I have so many questions I could have asked them.
I remember when a certain person's mother-in-law didn't like that certain person because she wasn't Italian, wasn't Catholic, didn't stay home to keep house, and even drove a car! Seems like plenty ethnicities want to keep the strain pure. Cannot nowadays. Should not, perhaps. Falling in love has no boundaries regarding race or culture or heritage.
Ah, love makes the world go 'round.
One other point about Hawaiian musc. I know so many of even those considered "masters" of the genre cannot make a living purely at music. Many have second or third jobs. Many hustle as much as they can to get their music noticed and keep it in front of the customer. I would think based on the people who post on this forum, that haoles have contributed significantly to supporting the music financially. Perhaps if haoles stayed away from the music, no Hawaiian musician could make any kind of money at it.
I remember Sir Duke's first post speaking about folks on the mainland supporting the music, learning the language, while that same support is not there on the Islands.
Why the apathy among those with any Hawaiian koko? Remember Duke said that cheap lessons were given at the school and they had to discontinue the classes because of lack of interst.
It is truly a conundrum. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2008 : 1:37:28 PM
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To follow up one of the threads ...
It is of great concern that Hawaiian culture and "peoplehood," (sorry for the neologism) are in such danger of extinction. The issues are, indeed, complex. However, I want to encourage everyone who participates on this board to actually do something about it. In short, put your money where your sentiments are .....
Specifically....
If theHawaiian culture is to survive it will be because of the interest of youth. Immersion schools, hula and the revival of olelo are good signs. But more needs to be done. Get involved.
You can contact people teaching kids (eg Ozzie's work at the Y, and many others,) and see what they need to continue and spread the work. Many of those kids could use a good guitar. Others could use a scholarship to a Hawaiian camp. Whatever. If you really want the Hawaiian culture, etc. to flourish, get involved (at least financially) and help it to happen with the kids. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2008 : 2:17:44 PM
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| Raymond - you hit the nail right on the head. Perhaps someone could come up with a list of opportunities for financial support that would help perpetuate the music in Hawai'i. I did see where Peter M. mentioned submitting a grant proposal to teach a young person,. I know Keoki Kahumoku is intimately involved in teaching youngsters. Matter of fact, I think I will take this on as a task to find organizations that malama the music and teach the music which need financial support. Maybe I found one small kuleana. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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braddah jay
Lokahi
235 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 12:03:48 AM
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Wow!everybody has some good points.Was just thinking about how the great ones strived to share,the love of their culture,through their music,and interactions, no matter where you was from.If was good enough for them,especially the three treasures we recently lost,that
should be good enough for us to learn from.Jesse mentioned,show respect,and share aloha.To me respect, in knowing,and remembering where this music came from.The sharing of aloha,well auntie,and uncle them showed us the way.Peter mentioned accountability,good point!Be nice if the true slack-key artist's out there saw it that way.Hopefully if I'm ever in a position to teach,I'll remember what
was taught to me by my kumu.Wanted to know is there some sort of criteria to be met,before you are considered a slack-key master?
?Awards won,accomplishments,contributions,aknowledgement
from fellow musicians,what else?Was just wondering,how it works.
Wanda good question,duke and I were discussing this,point is seems to me,like it or not, all of you out there on the big!big island, and elsewhere will determine how well! the kihoalu slack-key,and culture will thrive.Mahalo everybody!Aloha
braddah jay
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 04:04:25 AM
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Raymond and Wanda, the kids at the Mauna Loa town, Moloka`i, school have already gotten a decent guitar in the last year or two. I know a few people who are taking `Aha Punana Leo distance learning classes (final exam today! - and then on to the next higher course level)after having bought every tape and publication that `AHP produces. I know somebody who subscribes to Na Maka O Kana and who donates to UH language programs. I know some people who have sent checks with several 0s on them to Eddie and Myrna. I know some people who buy a lot of specialized books from UH Press. I know some people who have sent checks to slack key artists after getting their tabs. I know some people who have talked up slack key artists for years who, in Peter's phrase, have been iced (by Local/Hawaiian promoters, yet), until they have gotten recognized. I know somebody who has ironed Cyril's pants. I know people who house and feed and transport touring slack key artists regularly. I know some people who have lost money, time after time, putting on slack key concerts, but still do it. I know some people who open their house and prepare dinner for Hawaiian students far from home and then play slack key for them. I know people who open their house and feed Hawaiian music and culture lovers, of all ethnicities, and have everyone sing, play and dance. I know people who play slack key and sing Hawaiian songs (in Hawaiian) for free in parks, bookstores, and other venues too. I know people who spend a vast amount of time and effort trying to reestablish a Hawaiian community in a large city far away. Want to hear more? There is more to tell. Boring, maybe, but not hard to figure out how to try to make a difference, even if all these people I know are not Hawaiian themselves.
...Reid
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Edited by - Reid on 04/13/2008 04:23:59 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 04:35:50 AM
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| Reid - what you tell is good. As you have pointed out, there are many, many ways to support the Hawaiian music and culture. Sharing aloha is but one way. Financial support is another way. Honoring and respecting the traditions is another way. We all can find things to do to malama the music and musicians, the ones of today and those of the future, whether you have money to spare or whether you have time to spare or aloha to give. Thanks for grounding me in reality. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 06:21:08 AM
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My opinion is No!
First of all "cockroaching" is a very biased way of charcterizing musicians that are playing music subconciously based on thier own cultural experiences. I bet no one is intentionally trying to destroy Ki ho'alu or Hula. I applaud thier interest.
For sure, the inner circles of Hawaiian born musicians and honorably adopted artisans are not going to authenticate those playing outside of the Hawaiian perspective. Niether will passionate listeners.
Listeners that have been attracted to the music will hear, see, and feel the difference when a master finally reveals the soul of Hawaii to them. Every listener is a potential supporter of Hawaiin art, so even those without a solid connection are attracting listeners.
The musicians we hold in high esteem and those that are in good standing with them will be heard and will prevail, and will do so in front of increasingly larger audiences.
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guitarded
Ha`aha`a
USA
1799 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 11:55:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Menpachi Man
i going regret typing dis since i drinkin beer and playing slack key. when i drink beer, i no mo head. Why I typing dis? cuz good fun!
Brah, mahalo fo typing dis because wen make me smile on dis oddawise boring day out heya in da boonies. Wen make me laugh too how your profile wen blow your covah by revealing your ha'aha'a style of bull lying to us guys about being one junk fishaman and most likely about you being one junk guitah playah too. Good fun.quote:
From Menpachi Man's profile
Menpachi is a fish called U'u in Hawaiian because of the sound it makes. Unlike my expertise with guitar playing, I am an expert at catching menpachi, aweoweo, and aholehole. Catch other stuff too, like ulua, papio, nenue (expert), mu, uhu, humu's, stonefish, opihi (usual local stuff). Cannot play opihi moe moe like da pros, but can pick opihi and prepare em ono kine way like one pro :).
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 1:31:25 PM
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Menpachi, I don't type so much - one trick: highlight, <ctrl-C>, <ctrl-V>,<ctrl-V>,<ctrl-V>... just as I do now. Easier on the tendons. Whole document with commonly used phrases to copy. Fish on!
...Reid |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 2:11:25 PM
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Menpachi Man,
You talk da kine! Mahalo. That's why I play; "Cuz good fun!".
As for Reid. He's not bad for a Right Coast Mainlander!!! or a friend.
dog |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2174 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 2:13:44 PM
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In any culture, only a few care enough to perpetuate it, the rest "go along". 1/3 do. 1/3 watch, 1/3 don;t even know what's going on.
Musicians have always traded licks. I remember my grandpa talking about how he was astounded by the button accordion playing of an Italian guy in a logging camp in northern Sweden in 1919. Most of the polka bands playing "Cleveland Style" in this country aren't Slovenian and even then, that style has a lot of Swing and Jazz in it.
Bluegrass has Scot-Irish in it, and Blues and even Hawaiian--"Island Chimes" for "Dobro" is really "Maui Chimes", among other importations.
Regarding tradition: Yesterday's innovation is today's policy and tomorrow's hallowed tradition.
Our responsibility to to enjoy "da good fun", respect those that have gone on before and instruct those coming up to appreciate humanity.
I also think that there should be a special holiday in honor of the clip on tuner. |
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NANI
Lokahi
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 04:23:59 AM
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| What a boring world it would be if we all only stuck with what we were genetically entitled to. Course guess that only works if nobody in your family ever marries somebody different. So in my case I would not be allowed ANY music. My Great Grandparents were Pa Dutch strict no music no foolishness.Now along comes my Papa singing and dancing sweeps my Nana off here feet I Never heard my Nana sing but she must have loved his music to marry outside the family and all it cost her. My Dad rebelled from his family NO MUSIC family and LOVED ALL music. He taught himself to play many instruments and from him I developed a interest in every kind of music out there never knew there was ownership on musical style. I guess I just thought Music was there to be loved cherished and enjoyed. Seems I have heard a LOT of non Hawaiian songs made over into very beautiful Hawaiian sounding versions. No one seems to mind about that. Specially when they sell so well to the tourists? Me I just LOVE it ALL end up buying WAY to much and wishing I could play 1/10 as good as most you guys. |
"A hui hou kakou, malama pono".
Nancy |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 08:03:23 AM
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Yo Peter,
I am saddened by the news of your health status. As you know we have known each other since the seventies and I have had the pleasure of playing together with you and I also had you for a teacher for a while. I appreciate your input and I agree about the crass commercialism that has distorted people's perceptions of what is slack key or in general, what is Hawaiian Music.
There are some of us who try to keep true to form and make demands on ourselves to represent Hawaiian music in as pure a form as possible. To do any less is to pay dishonor to our kupuna and those who came before us. We do not need to be ethnically Hawaiian to do this but those of us who are endowed with koko Hawai'i are certainly at an advantage over those who are not. On the other hand it is also a burden of sorts since the onus is on us to be as faithful as possible to our cultural heritage. This sort of position transcends the desire to be commercially successful.
I thank you for your thoughtful input and it has given me the chance to revisit my own motivations for learning and playing music in the first place.
I also feel honored and validated that people of other ethnic roots want to play the music of Hawai'i and most of them do play with respect and do try to honor the music. And it will change from time to time. I know that I have learned enough to have more than one version of a song that can be played differently in different keys and also varies if someone wants to dance to it. Musical performance is not written in stone. I am reminded of Chuang Tzu who prefaced his first writing with the thought that having written something violates the basic premise of Taoism. The principle of constant change. He said that once something is written the writing is unchangeable. That to me is like recording. Although it is nice to do, I think that once we become associated with a particular recording we are expected to play our song the same way over and over forever. Change is inevitable and that is natural.
Any way I hope you come through this and keep on kepping on |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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