| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
 Posted - 04/28/2008 : 07:01:21 AM
|
Here is an article from Digital Music News, stating that digital sales (e.g. iTunes) have reached 23% of CD sales. CD sales also declined 17% last quarter.
http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/stories/042708riaa
I'm very curious to hear everybody's thoughts on the topic. These numbers seem to continually change the way we sell and distribute music.
|
Darin
http://www.hawaiiguitar.com/ |
|
|
Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 07:46:05 AM
|
Well...
As a recording engineer, I deplore the fact that once again we are faced with a format that makes music sound worse than the one it is replacing.
As a musician, I lament the loss of fidelity but I'm happy to see another potent sales outlet for my music.
As an environmentalist, I applaud the fact that digital downloads don't add to the acres of plastic entering the waste stream.
And as an old guy, I just wish we'd go back to LPs so I could read the dang liner notes without a magnifying glass!
|
 |
|
|
Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 08:12:07 AM
|
I've owned LPs. I still buy CDs. I have never purchased a digital download, and I do not own an iPod. Am I becoming a curmudgeon who technology is passing by?
I didn't look at the full report. What kind of growth did digital sales have year over year? It's surprising to see digital sales making up nearly a quarter of CD sales, but the CD sale pie is shrinking.
Do musicians make more $ selling a CD (album of songs) versus digital downloads (piece meal)? |
Andy |
|
|
|
808bk
Akahai
82 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 08:32:12 AM
|
| Is this why it looks like they're clearing out a lot of the cd's at Borders? |
|
|
|
RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 11:02:15 AM
|
Borders is in serious financial trouble. They are just trying to get liquid. Insider news says Barnes and Noble is drooling for a takeover.
I've bought a few downloads, specially of OOP albums. Personally, I liked vinyl, CD's or ok for convenience even though they don't sound as good. I hate dowbloads most because I like liner notes, pictures, etc. I can't tell much difference in sound between cd and mp3.
I do own an mp3 player, but usually only use it for vacation, trips, stuff like that. I've got about 150 albums on it, 97 - 98% ripped from CD's I own. |
|
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 11:17:28 AM
|
Well, you know Paul and I are really Ma and Pa Kettle in disguise. We just barely got a push button phone. We still have lots of reel-to-reel tapes. Never did have an 8-track, though. We got goo-gobs of cassettes. We have goo-gobs of CDs, as well. All our Hawaiian music, save one, are CDs. I would druther have CDs than download. I do not know much of anything about sound quality, and I do not even know of my old ears could discern and difference, what with spending many, many years in factories with lots of industrial noise. I do know, though, that I'd druther hold something in my hand, and browse Auntie Maria's web-site and look forward to the mele man making a delivery than getting something off the computer. One of the things I like about Hawaiian musicians is their personal touch with the customers. I believe that would be lost with e-music. I do truly love having liner notes, having lyrics supplied and little talk story stuff to read. I also like to read who played what on which cut and who sang lead, etc. We do not have an iPod or any other mp3 thingie. Our youngest daughter does, but she is on the road constantly with Disney on Ice (High School Musical is going to Brazil). It makes better sense for her. Picking your songs piecemeal will end the "album" concept. Why make a collection if people will get the sonsg one at a time. What do you do with individual songs that didn't sell? Does selling them one at a time increase profits for the artist? I ain't thinking about the recording comopanies in particular, just the artist. Does that elminate the distribution companies?
I am looking for a treadmill or recumbent bike to supplement my cardiac rehab. Every treadmill I looked at boasted about being mp3 compatible first before they told you anything about what makes it a good treadmill. Me, I'd druther put music on the stereo, crank it up and sing at the top of my lungs.
I vote no on electronical stuff. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
|
|
|
Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 2:04:04 PM
|
Raymond,
If you had the proper CDs, with proper recording techniques, with proper decoding and reproduction equipment, you could hear the amazing detail of Glenn Gould's humming. I know you would love it, especially in the second recording of The Goldberg Variations, of which there is none better. Especially in the variation that prefigures "On Blueberry Hill".
Vinyl sux, and there was, this week, an article that described an experiment in which humans thought that random (Brownian) noise in a recording of "real" music made it sound better. Sorta like current TV watchers.
...Reid
...Reid |
|
|
|
hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 2:45:25 PM
|
I am always intrigued by the "vinyl sucks" debate. No offense intended, but I usually find that those who espouse this opinion have never heard vonyl reproduced on good quality equipment.
I have over 10,000 LPs and I have no intention of replacing them. I alternate between early 1980s vintage Denon DP-52F and Luxman PD-284 direct drive turntables. (I have perfect pitch, and I have never heard any detectable wow and flutter from these tables.) These are fitted with top of the line Shure V15 cartridges. I use a KLH Burwen Research and SAE transient noise eliminators to remove surface noise, clicks, and pops. I run these through a Carver preamp and Carver tube power amp which powers a choice of KEF studio monitors or DCMs.
And this is considered an inexpensive set-up. But the warmth, depth, and imaging of vinyl - even in such a modest set-up - is unmatched by a CD. Despite advances in CD technology, these still sound screechy and artificial to my ears.
More to the topic, I still prefer a CD to a download. I want to hold something in my hand. I want liner notes to read and reference. I want portability without the fuss of ripping or downloading. (Oh, and besides, my car LP player skips terribly.)
|
Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
|
|
|
guitarded
Ha`aha`a
USA
1799 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 3:27:11 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by hwnmusiclives
(Oh, and besides, my car LP player skips terribly.)
See Ma? You and Pa ain't the only ones. This Bill Wynne is a Renaissance Man. Y'all better grab and hog-tie him while you still can. Your daughters ain't married yet, are they?
This thread got me curious enough to download/install ITunes just to see what they had in the way of Hawaiian music that I didn't already have. It pretty much sucked. Keep them CDs and insightful and inspirational liner notes coming. |
 |
|
|
|
javeiro
Lokahi
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 3:58:56 PM
|
| Put me down with the crowd who have never downloaded a song or owned an MP3 player. My entire musical collection consists of CD's. I used to have a ton of LP's and some cassette tapes and even reel to reel tapes but they were all destroyed in a flood in 1983. |
Aloha,
John A. |
|
|
|
RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 7:31:33 PM
|
Reid,
I get what you are saying. What bothers me about cd's is that after 2 disks or so, I start getting "listening fatigue," for want of better term. I don't get this with vinyl, even though I now have to put up with too much scratching, etc. from using old albums. Not being an engineer, I have to base my opinion on what I've read, including in the patch - the manipulation of sound in modern recordings is probably to blame - not the medium itself. Still most cd's have that manipulation built in. |
|
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2008 : 12:31:37 AM
|
Braddah Ed: I tried fixing Bill up with my youngest daughter but he thought he was too old for her. He's missing out, is all I've got to say. Maybe Bill is afraid to have me for a mother-in-law. Yep, that is probably what sent him screaming.
Ah well, when it is the right time I guess I will become a mother-in-law and maybe then a granny. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
|
|
|
Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2008 : 02:14:22 AM
|
Raymond, my post was (partially) a joke. I really wanted to know what you have against Glenn Gould, seriously. That would be edifying, and make me listen closer. I know about Gould's life, and he was a kook, and despised performance, and retuned his piano to sound like a harpsichord, etc. etc. But, anything that he did that doesn't please me, I have attributed to Bach - like the French Suites, which bore me out of my mind.
Bill, I have tons of vinyl, too, and I used a *very* good set-up (without your inline pop and crackle eliminator. I did try the SAE unit, but it didn't do it for me at any setting and was easy to overdo.) I also had an inline DBx compander (still have it) which helped somewhat for the dynamic range. It was the constant disk washing/brushing that drove me nuts and the results were still not thrilling. Love that RIAA curve, NOT! I was an Early CD adopter, before they started manipulating the CD sound, and the operas I bought raised the hair on my scalp and brought tears to my eyes,they were so real and detailed. Some Chopin discs sounded like the piano was in my house. Then, the "engineers" started screwing around with things. The micing changed, too. Von Karajan vs. the world.
Oh yeah... I had to rig up a very elaborate shock absorber system so that just walking across the floor wouldn't blow my very lightly weighted, custom shaped, diamond needle out of a groove. That was really a feat of engineering.
It ain't the medium, it is the people.
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 04/29/2008 02:26:17 AM |
|
|
|
hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2008 : 02:55:19 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Reid
It ain't the medium, it is the people.
...Reid
Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding! Precisely!
This is especially true in Hawaiian music... After all, even the earliest recording mediums were intended to capture the thrill of a live performance. That means leaving some of the gaffs in the final mix. The ability to cut, paste, edit, and even repair single notes or syllables makes digital music anything but live. I laugh when I hear that artists spent two years working on their latest CD. There is a law of diminishing returns.
No matter what one might think of him, Webley Edwards had some words of wisdom about this. Regarding the Hawaii Calls broadcasts and LPs, he once said, "Our goal is to rehearse it and rehearse it and rehearse - until it sounds like we never rehearsed it."
This is why I like early Duke Ellington recordings. You could give him 20 takes at the same song and he would likely still pick the second to release - because he had largely fixed the mistakes from the first but kept the spontaneity that was uniquely Ellington.
Was music really meant to be technically or sonically perfect?
|
Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
|
|
|
da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2008 : 07:59:01 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Admin
I do not own an iPod.
ha ha ha. me too. no use. I did rip all of my CD's to mp3's though, so I can listen to um ontop my computer. Dat way, if I lose da CD, I still get um. It's been years since I wen buy a CD. It's not dat I no like um, but now days i listen to online radio. I hate moving and trucking all those dang CD's and dea cases all ova da place. so hum bug no? |
If can, can. If no can, no can. |
|
|
|
Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2008 : 08:23:47 AM
|
quote:
Put me down with the crowd who have never downloaded a song or owned an MP3 player
Well, it appears we have a fine group of Luddites here on Taropatch. No surprises there.
But, on to the question at hand:
quote:
Do musicians make more $ selling a CD (album of songs) versus digital downloads (piece meal)?
Andy, that is actually two questions. For artists with old fashioned record deals (the kind where you get a small royalty for album sales from the label) the answer is yes. You would make more for the sale of a CD than for the individual downloads. Depending on a host of factors, 'natch.
The bottom line is that many artists never actually get what is owed... look up "advance" and "recoupables" and "Foreign sales" in and music biz primer.
But for those of us who are our own labels, it is a different story. What I make off of a CD sale varies considerable with how it is sold. Buy from me at a gig and I make the price you pay, less the cost of recording and manufacturing the CD. Buy it from me online and subtract the cost of mailing it to you and the overhead of the website, Buy it from and online retailer and I make that less the marginal cost of shipping the cds to the retailer minus their cut.
Buy it from a store and I make that less the distributor's cut and the cost of trying to ever collect the money they owe me...
That is why I love downloads. I get paid a few dimes for every one sold. With zero effort on my part. I pay a small one-time fee to CD Baby to set it up, and they take a cut, sure. (Other services exist, BTW).
Other than that each sale is new money. I don't have to ship, I don't have to inventory, and I really don't so much to promote 'em. Someone in Ullan Battor hears my music on MySpace and buys a song. Ca-ching. Someone googles "slack key" and buys a song. Ca-ching. Someone decides to buy a song from every musician named "Mark Nelson." Ca-ching.
Oh, I own an iPod. And I have bought music from iTunes. Also from other online sources. In fact, without downloads, there is no way to buy music from some obscure bands who deserve our support. That's how I got the Nightloser's album.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
