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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
 Posted - 05/27/2008 : 1:15:17 PM
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Passed a big silver car on 580 in Oakland today with this license:
II V7 I
Doesn't belong to anyone here in the patch, I don't suppose?
So by the way, myself I'm a little shy about "advertising" my music interest--no treble clef or hibiscus tattoos, not even a Jus' Press bumper sticker (well, there are those fingernails to explain). That's just me, I guess--maybe 'fraid someone will ask me to sing something on the spot.
I'm wondering-- who here falls more into the "in the closet" musician category and who, on the other hand, can be spotted as a slacker or uker at 30 yards?
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 03:19:23 AM
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Thanks for the encouraging words, Braddah Duke. Not dirty, no secret, just shy.
I'll let you know when I work up the courage for a debut public performance like you did, even if not at a wedding.
K den, no sked 'um. Now I just gotta figure out what to put on my license plate.
-Mike |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 06:27:45 AM
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If it's a II V7 I I think it probably belongs to a jazz player!
I did a public performance on a train last night - it was great fun. Not slack key, I'm afraid - nobody near me to play that style with, but great fun anyway.
Everyone seems to know I'm a musician. I haven't got any specific reasons, but I've got long hair, earrings and one of those little beards, so I suppose a general air of scruffiness is the giveaway.
Sadly, there's not many people in the UK who have even heard of slack key music, so I'm unlikely to be spotted for that reason. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 08:01:15 AM
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Trev, most Amurrican jazzers wouldn't be caught dead playing *any* vamp, or any common tonal chord progression, let alone that one. It is a perfectly good Hawaiian vamp, and often heard in other "roots" music here, - although it is most often II7 V7 I. EVERY `uke player uses it habitually (2 beats each on each of the first 2 chords and 4 beats on the I), and it is buried in most slack key guitar vamp variations - that's where the E comes from in many Taro Patch vamps.
...Reid |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 09:34:59 AM
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Reid, even as I type this I'm listening to both Pizzarellis playing with Ruby Braff on his last recording. First cut, "Lulu's Back in Town." All vamp, all the time. We be swingin' now, yeah.
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 3:32:09 PM
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Russell, Pizzarelli's are old school. Ask Ornette Coleman.
...Reid |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 4:51:08 PM
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Can't ask Ornette, since we speak different musical dialects. Monk, on the other hand, speaks volumes, and has been known to commit all kinds of ii-V-Is, I-VI-ii-Vs, and even da blues. But old school's good enough for me, since I'm an alumnus my own self. (And you're even older, you geezer you. I've seen your graffiti scratched on the megaliths.)
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2008 : 04:07:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mike2jb
Passed a big silver car on 580 in Oakland today with this license:
II V7 I
Doesn't belong to anyone here in the patch, I don't suppose?
I'm wondering-- who here falls more into the "in the closet" musician category and who, on the other hand, can be spotted as a slacker or uker at 30 yards?
I like the plate a lot. But I suspect this does belong to a jazzer because (as I may have mentioned here previously) classical purists would not write that chord progression with that notation as theory teachers (at least mine) do not believe that changing the lower case ii to an upper case II changes the chord from major to minor. The scale is what it is. Changing the capitalization should not change the notes in the scale. Changing one note in the scale would essentially represent a change in key.
The chord referred to here is the secondary dominant and is more often notated as the V chord of the V chord in a different scale - like a temporary change of key. I would have written it like this:
V7/V V7 I
That being said, I have never been in the closet about my musical preferences or my life as a sometimes performer. My friends, colleagues, and local community have attended my performances. Every summer I break dress code for "Aloha Summer" in which I abandon button-down shirts and ties for 75 days of aloha shirts (without repeating a shirt). When I need to take personal time from work for a performance, I say, "I have a performance." And my employer has given me up to three weeks vacation at one time to go to Hawai`i to participate in the falsetto contests.
Why hide it? It's who we are and without it, we wouldn't be our fully realized selves. In my case, it would be like cutting off an arm and a leg.
I have never played for applause. (I frequently don't get any.) I play to educate about the Hawaiian culture, and I play to bring back memories for our mainland kupuna who too infrequently get back home.
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
Edited by - hwnmusiclives on 05/29/2008 04:09:48 AM |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2008 : 07:06:29 AM
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Bill, in my experience, classically/formally trained musicians--particularly guitarists--don't pay as much attention to chord changes as do jazz/swing/folk/rock players. And among violinists, even those who are used to playing in popular styles often hesitate when I ask what chord applies at some point in a tune. The ones who *are* used to dealing with guitarists and bassists get used to identifying the key and calling changes, but my impression is that formal string training emphasizes scales and harmonic theory more than chord spelling (after all, fiddles aren't very chordal) or the kind of pragmatic pop-tune knowledge that I've picked up from playing with dance-band guys. ("It's rhythm changes with no bridge," or "the head starts on the IV [or the VI] chord.")
My teachers (in swing workshops, dealing with relatively unschooled players) never use the secondary-dominant explanation--they explain by reference to chords built on scale degrees in the home key and their charts will invariably use the upper/lowercase Roman numerals. License plates, of course, are produced only in upper case, so we can't tell whether this one refers to "Honeysuckle Rose" or "Salty Dog."
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2008 : 09:55:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Reid
Trev, most Amurrican jazzers wouldn't be caught dead playing *any* vamp, or any common tonal chord progression, let alone that one. It is a perfectly good Hawaiian vamp, and often heard in other "roots" music here, - although it is most often II7 V7 I. EVERY `uke player uses it habitually (2 beats each on each of the first 2 chords and 4 beats on the I), and it is buried in most slack key guitar vamp variations - that's where the E comes from in many Taro Patch vamps.
...Reid
Hey, Reid! Short definition of jazz ;) - its just II V I and you change the key. |
keaka |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2008 : 10:31:22 AM
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Cool, Jack. The defn. I heard was:"One clam is a mistake, a bunch of clams is jazz."
Russell, you are more correct than you know: I did a lot of research and had 2 publications, a long time ago, on Bronze Age Swedish petroglyphs. AND, I was one of the first to clearly photograph graffiti on Stonehenge's Sarsen stones using polarized light. Yuk, yuk...
...Reid
PS. Just an addition - kinda long. As Russell noted, there is jazz, jazz, and then, there is jazz. It is hardly monolithic and some of the discussions about it remind me very much about the discussions and, yes, arguments, we have here about what is slack key. So, I submit that Russell is right, and I am right and everyone who listens to one kind of jazz, or another (have you read about the flak that Marsalis has been given and has dished out?) is right. And, I really like the jazz that I like, and the slack key that I like. I have been having ongoing arguments with a good friend of mine who writes about such stuff in mags like Fretboard Journal and has an assignment to write about the guitars made by Monteleone. I love the way they look, have played archtops by Kim Walker (about as good, hah), but I have never heard a sound I like (especially unamped), so, I tell him that and I get this:
"Pound out some 4-chords-to-the-bar, Freddie Green style rhythm using altered dominant chords (G7(b5b9), G7(b5b9)/F & G7(#5b9)), and you'll hear the magic. Listen, best, to Freddie Green with the Count Basie orchestra. Only an archtop sounds good for that stuff."
Anyone want to comment about those chords or anything else (except forget it)?
I don't think they are very interesting chords:-) |
Edited by - Reid on 05/29/2008 2:43:09 PM |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2008 : 02:06:50 AM
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"there is jazz, jazz, and then, there is jazz"
I listen to the jazz station here in Lansing, MI while I work (rehabbing houses) since there is no Hawaiian music on the air here. About a third of what they play is what I would call jazz. The rest is what I consider soul, pop, and at worst- muzak. Sadly, it is the best we have available...
Chris |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2008 : 05:00:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Reid
"Pound out some 4-chords-to-the-bar, Freddie Green style rhythm using altered dominant chords (G7(b5b9), G7(b5b9)/F & G7(#5b9)), and you'll hear the magic. Listen, best, to Freddie Green with the Count Basie orchestra. Only an archtop sounds good for that stuff."
Anyone want to comment about those chords or anything else (except forget it)?
There would have been no Count Basie Orchestra without Freddie Green. I swear I don't think anybody else could have done the job.
Pahukoa Morse, Ethelyne Teves, and Pauline Kekahuna are the Freddie Greens of Hawaiian music. NOTICE: The most amazing rhythm guitarists in the history of Hawaiian music were all women. (You go, girls!) Pua Almeida was the Herb Ellis of Hawaiian music while Sonny Kamaka was Hawai`i's answer to Barney Kessel. Listen to their changes.
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2008 : 06:24:06 AM
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| As a long-time jazz affici...aficiann...aphasian... ... ... fan, I like your comparisons, Bill. I get 'em! |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2008 : 06:55:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hwnmusiclives
quote:
Originally posted by Reid
"Pound out some 4-chords-to-the-bar, Freddie Green style rhythm using altered dominant chords (G7(b5b9), G7(b5b9)/F & G7(#5b9)), and you'll hear the magic. Listen, best, to Freddie Green with the Count Basie orchestra. Only an archtop sounds good for that stuff."
Anyone want to comment about those chords or anything else (except forget it)?
There would have been no Count Basie Orchestra without Freddie Green. I swear I don't think anybody else could have done the job.
Pahukoa Morse, Ethelyne Teves, and Pauline Kekahuna are the Freddie Greens of Hawaiian music. NOTICE: The most amazing rhythm guitarists in the history of Hawaiian music were all women. (You go, girls!) Pua Almeida was the Herb Ellis of Hawaiian music while Sonny Kamaka was Hawai`i's answer to Barney Kessel. Listen to their changes.
Hey, Bill, how about Hiram Olsen? |
keaka |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2008 : 07:24:17 AM
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quote:
There would have been no Count Basie Orchestra without Freddie Green.
Many years ago I co-produced the Basie band at the Britt Festival- a large outdoor venue on a hillside near my home. Sitting in the back, near the trees, Freddy Green's guitar was plainly audible above the band. He was not mic'ed.
quote:
Only an archtop sounds good for that stuff.
Yep. That's why you could hear him.
Freddy Green tapped into the universal timekeeper and stayed there.
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