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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
 Posted - 06/04/2008 : 05:16:38 AM
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I'm having haaad (hard) time making shua my tumb does da alternating bass at one steady tempo. once i get da odda fingahs moving, i get all messed up. any tips? wat kine stuff should i try practice fo get dis down?
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If can, can. If no can, no can. |
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Earl
`Olu`olu
USA
521 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 06:47:05 AM
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In his instructional DVD series, “Easy Steps to Guitar Fingerpicking”, Happy Traum has a drill that addresses this issue. Basically, you start with an alternating bass between strings 6-4. Get the bass going steadily, with a 1-2-3-4 count. (If you think in terms of strings, it is a 6 – 4 – 6 – 4 bass line with a note on each down beat). Any pair of bass notes will do, so you could use 5 - 4- 5- 4 in taro patch tuning. But skipping a string helps to train your fingers on the wider spacing.
Now on the first beat of each measure, pluck the 1st string with a finger. Do only that for a couple of four beat measures, then drop the melody note out again. Keep the alternating bass going at all times without interruption.
Next, add the melody note on the second beat of the measure, go for several four counts, and drop the melody note out again. Then again on the third beat, then on the fourth beat. The next step is to add a melody note on the second string and repeat the drill – added note on the 1st beat, 2nd beat, 3rd beat, 4th beat.
These are pinches, where you hit the bass and melody notes at the same time, pinching the pair simultaneously. The next step is to get the bass going on the downbeat, then add the melody note on the “and” or upbeat between 1 and 2. In other words, separate the notes instead of pinching them.
This is almost harder to describe in words than to do. The neat part is that you are training the thumb to keep a bass line going while developing independence in the fingers, step by step. I have a tab version of this drill written up, which I could email as a PDF if you want.
- Earl
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 06:48:11 AM
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Thumbstruck would tell you (and I hope he doesn't mind my revealing this; if he does, this posting will self-destruct) - practice only the thumb doing bass lines - ONLY the thumb, mind you, and nothing else - for at least ten minutes a day, every day, for three weeks.
That's a hard-and-fast rule for his (ought to be patented) Lesson #1 of learning slack key.
Three weeks. Ten minutes a day. Just the thumb doing bass - don't let anything else distract you, and don't jump in with any other fingers.
Do it - and check back in with your progress report after June 25.
(Really. I'm not kidding. Thumbstruck swears by this method - and I've heard others report back that it works!) |
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Earl
`Olu`olu
USA
521 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 06:52:38 AM
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Retro is absolutely right. That is the other element here. It takes *correct* repetition to develop the new motor skills so that your fingers can move on autopilot with minimal conscious thought. I usually recommend that new finger style students do these sorts of drills for 3-5 minutes a day, every day. After a couple of weeks the fingers will just know where to go. Kinda like learning to finger new chord shapes.
Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. So go slow and get it 100% right. Speed and smoothness will come later.
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 07:13:16 AM
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| Above makes sense - and if you are having trouble keeping a steady beat just using your foot taps, get a cheap metronone and use it until you get better at keeping a beat. While you have the metronone on, also tap one foot to the beat. Sometimes it helps having someone else thee with you who can hear you play with "objective" ears and tell you when you are off beat. |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 07:41:51 AM
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Since this is a common problem, let me add my 2 cents:
The number one problem with guitar players trying to learn fingerpicking is impatience. It's easy to get all the melody notes happening; it's hard to keep the thumb steady. So we get lazy and just forge ahead with the melody.
I have a couple of TABs I use with my students to develop thumb independence. One is in the "Learn to Play Hawaiian Slack Key," book & in my video lesson series.. http://www.jamplay.com/affiliates/idevaffiliate.php?id=2176
Basically, it's the old nursery rhyme "Are You Sleeping Brother John" - in Taropatch tuning.
I also use a TAB I made up called Pua Lena (OK, common title. But he was a yellow doggie). You can download it free from my website. http://www.mark-o.com/tabstore.html
The point is to take it so slow that you cannot possibly make a mistake. So, if you need a metronome setting of 1 beat per minute to correctly place your fingers, that's where to start.
I also suggest taking a couple of measures of whatever you are working on -- the standard taropatch turnaround is a good example -- and turning it into an exercise. Do it over and over, as slowly as you need to.
It all gets down to muscle memory. Until you put in the time, you just won't be able to do it. And when I mean time, I mean [i]time{/i].
Remember how long it took you to learn how to walk?
Good luck.
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 09:17:20 AM
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I want to add that your thumb might not want to behave even if you know the bass pattern. Sometimes if the finger pattern is different you got to parctice the thumb again.
There are some real thumb testers out there and some even sound easy. Basically, it's a continuous journey.
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 09:27:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Haole_Boy
I want to add that your thumb might not want to behave even if you know the bass pattern. Sometimes if the finger pattern is different you got to parctice the thumb again.
There are some real thumb testers out there and some even sound easy. Basically, it's a continuous journey.
Neurologically, you have to get your picking out of your frontal lobes and back in the tempoal lobes and cerebellum. There are a couple of ways to do this, all of which involve doing it for a loooonnnggg time. When I teach my banjo students to get the basic strum under control, we have a conversation about anything -the weather, etc - while we're playing. When you can talk to someone while playing the pattern, you've got it. The other, I learned from my banjo kumu - start the pattern and watch a baseball game on TV. Not a lot happens for most of the game, and they have instant replay when something DOES happen. It keeps you from getting bored, and you get lots of reps of the pattern while your fromtal lobes are involved with the ball game. |
keaka |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 09:59:35 AM
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| So that's what Paul has been doing all these years! Baseball and banjer! Whooda thunk. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 12:36:34 PM
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tanks sooooo much you guys! i tell you wat. i goin do thumbstruck's method. 10 minutes a dat. tumb only. sounds good to me. I remembah learning how fo double and triple tongue, all I did was say de-ga-de-ga-de-ga all day long until i could do um. den de-de-ga-de-de-ga- . You know wat? Now I can! ha ha.
i like da baseball idea! i'll try doing um while watching some tv tonight! Alrighty guys! 10 minutes a day fo 3 weeks. Earl, I like dat exercise too. Once I get da thumb steady, I goin try dat!
tanks again! |
If can, can. If no can, no can. |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 1:07:14 PM
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| No foget download Marks stuff it breaks the monotony of mundane repetition. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 04:29:48 AM
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Earl showed me his exercise last year - Thanks again, Earl! I was (and still am) new to the style, and while I found I could do the bass OK, and the melody OK, but could I do both at the one time? No I could not! I still can't very well, but I'm better than I was.
I also learned the 'brother John' (I had no idea until I started playing it- that is the song I know as 'Frere Jaques') exercise from Mark's book - which is a really excellent one, as it gets you playing notes on the different beats.
I've not been playing slack key much - where I live I've nobody to play it with and I don't particularly enjoy playing on my own (and I'm not good at learning out of books either). However, I have been really inspired recently watching Brother Duke and Brother Jay on YouTube so I'm giving it another go! (Thanks again guys!)
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 04:36:10 AM
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| Dukie and Jay - now look what you have done! You went and inspired someone. I wonder if Trev will learn to be kolohe like you guys. He can be da first kolohe buggah in the UK. But first, Trev, you gotta have the aloha like Jay and Duke. But I'm thinking, since you are one of our TP braddahs, then you got that aloha already. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 04:49:14 AM
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eh bruddah trev! no worry brah! you not alone in having hard time fo get dis stuffs down. i play by myself too. no mo time fo kani wit anybody :-( I love messing around wit Ozzie's stuffs. I wen memorize 2 songs ... Maunaloa and Manuela Boy. My poor wife gotta hea dese 2 songs ova and ova, everytime i get all fed up wit trying and screwing up newer stuff :-) ha ha ha. Ova one yea already.
Da awesome ting is get da TP ohana fo kokua no?
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If can, can. If no can, no can. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 04:58:21 AM
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Brandon - I remember when Paul was learning dulcimer and joined a dulcimer club. And I think also one of his pals was learning to play mandolin and they were playing Arkansas Traveler, which for the unitiated is the same tune as the keiki "Baby Bumblebee" song. I got to the point when I wanted to smash that damn dumblebee! Over and over and over and over. Also dulcimer club - Bile Dem Cabbage. Over and over and over. At least Paul got tired of that one.
I also remember when my youngest daughter was learning to play violin (not fiddle, she wanted the high-falutin' violin). I must tell you, played well violin is one of the most beautiful instruments, and she did get way mo bettah. I think she ending up first chair or something like that. But, in the learning how to play days, a screechy violin could lead to sending one to a lunatic asylum. I think a cat in heat is more pleasant.
I'm going to be getting much more serious practicing on the `uke and I know our neighbors will probably call the cops thinking someone is being murdered at my house. Raindrops, they hamper my vision....over and over and over. Someone may want to poke my eyes out. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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les_maverick
Lokahi
USA
238 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 06:33:01 AM
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Bruddah Brandon:
Looks like we are on the same learning track.
I play the same two songs over and over,
waiting until I am happy enough to move to something new.
Yes my wife too knows when I screw up....
I am trying to practice on the alternating bass drill too.
I think I will work on Maunaloa next.
My uke playing is coming along slowly also.
Les |
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