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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
 Posted - 06/05/2008 : 07:32:13 AM
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Funny thing: I have a new student, who is quite an accomplished flatpick-backyard-jamming kind of guitar player. In other words, he can hear something and either replicate or, usually, come up with something similar and musical very quickly.
So he shows up last night... and he couldn't do the alternating thumb.
Guess what we spent the hour on?
OK, couple more thoughts:
quote:
I've not been playing slack key much - where I live I've nobody to play it with and I don't particularly enjoy playing on my own
Hey Trev -- one of the main reasons I started playing slack key was so I could be satisfied playing guitar without anyone to play with. There's something so nice about playing bass, melody and accompaniement all at the same time. You are a folk musician, ferget the books and just concentrate on the melodies. After you learn your first 100 you'll find you have lots of stuff to play.
quote:
I play the same two songs over and over,
waiting until I am happy enough to move to something new.
That's OK as far as it goes, but I'd suggest moving on now. Pick a couple more songs and work on those, too.
Why? Well, for one thing, you might actually be drilling some bad habits and not know it. By varying your practice, you will find some things will stay the same (your thumb) and some things may change.
It is good to work different muscles. Think of Karate Kid-- he didn't just wipe the polish on, he also wiped it off... and painted the fence.
Also-- your brain (and significant others) needs variety and stimulation.
How you practice is vital. We're talking maybe 5-10 minutes a day of drilling. Not hours and hours of playing the same four bars. That leads to injuries and divorce.
Here's an idea for how to structure a daily practice:
1) Warm up. Tune the guitar, do some relaxation & stretches. Maybe noodle a bit.
2) Play something you know. Don't get hung up, just blow through it and have fun. This will put you in the mood to get to work. (If you have problems playing it, save these for step 5.
3) Drill #1. Do one of the thumb exercises suggested below. Do it slowly enough to not make any mistakes. 5-10 minutes, max
4) Drill # 2: This can be anything you need to work on. If the thumb is still an issue, find a second drill, like a 2-bar turnaround. Or work on double stops up and down the neck with the correct bass. Again, 5-10 minutes.
5) Work on learning a new song, or correcting problems with an old one. Or writing something, or ??? In other words, what most people call "practice."
6) Go back to one of the drills. It ought to be easier now.
7) Fool around. Play stuff you like. Remind yourself why you love slack key.
OK, so that's maybe 60 minutes of practice. Notice that I don't suggest working on the same thing for the whole hour.
Notice, too, that practice is not just playing through all the songs you know. It is about setting goals and problem solving.
If you only do 5-10 minutes of real practice a day, you will improve. If you do two hours of farting around, you will teach yourself to fart around.
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 07:41:33 AM
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Re: fut, see Talk Story Thread.
Supposedly Duke is the King. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 08:54:50 AM
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| No wonder everbody left and I thought it was da music. |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 10:15:40 AM
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Banjo & baseball-The Blind Squirrel finds a nut once in a while. Actually, Banjo Guru Peter Wernick said to play those rolls on the arm of the chair while watching TV. Or damp the strings with the other hand and practice the rolls. It's all muscle memory, doing the rolls. They bear little resemblance to slack key, but the concept is to be able to pluck the strings without thinking about them. And the muscle memory only comes from repitition.
But I rarely practiced Bile Them Cabbage at home, the simple, training wheels version we play in the club was too boring after only a short time. I've heard fiddlers really make it shine, though.
Some of the best advice is Mark's- If you only practice new things you are learning, you don't realise the enjoyment you thought you were investing your practice time to earn. You have to reward yourself some, too. At the beginning, it's hard to do because you haven't learned anything to reward yourself WITH. But it comes, if you invest the time regularly. After you learn a song, even a simple one, use it as a reward after several minutes of diligent work on another song. Then go back and practice some more. There ain't no magic beans, the stalk has to grow at it's own pace.
Paul
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"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 11:16:29 AM
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Anyone understand the neurophysiology, or otherwise, of why so many of us "rush the beat?" Mahalo.
Larry |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 11:33:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Larry Goldstein
Anyone understand the neurophysiology, or otherwise, of why so many of us "rush the beat?" Mahalo.
And whether or not it's a more prominent phenomenon in urban (high-pressure, rushrushrush) environments?
Q: How can you tell when there's a drummer at your door?
A: The knocking keeps speeding up.
(Ow. Ow. Ow.) |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 11:45:54 AM
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| As a player you try to stay away from big words, they can affect your playing. The problem with rushing the beat is over anticipation and thinking too much. If you know the piece or the form of the piece there shouldn't be a problem. Unless there are parts which are rubato (without strict rhythm - adlibbed) the tempo for a piece should be even unless there is a clear indication of a change in tempo. Get used to using a metronome if one is available. You don't have to play perfect, just try and come close -- at the very least you'll have more fun by not worrying throughout the piece. After all this is Hawaiian folk music. |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 12:04:45 PM
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quote:
As a player you try to stay away from big words, they can affect your playing.
Peter,
Thanks for the chuckle, and good response.
Larry
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 12:59:56 PM
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Mark! Lovely to hear from you. Yes I'm another 'flatpick' guy really. I can play OK with a pick but alternating bass and using the ol' fingers is a whole different thing, and I'm still on the beginner slopes with that. I agree, it's great to be able to play bass melody and accompniment at the same time - I really admire people who can do it and I love listening to it. It's just that when I play with my pals, (most nights) and we have all the fiddles, guitars, flutes, piano, voices etc., well it just sounds magical. When we get it right the whole becomes greater than the sum of the parts, and there's nothing quite like it. It's so much more satisfying for me on every level. But I do want to improve with the fingers, and the only way to do it is to practise, so I appreciate the advice and encouragement. Maybe when we meet again (and I feel in my bones that we will) I'll have learnt a bit more. If not, well I'll bring the mandolin as well and wing it as best I can!
Wanda - Duke & Jay have really inspired me - if I ever get to sound a quarter as good as that I'll be a happy man! I think I learned a little about what aloha means when I went to Hawaii, but I think I've a lot more to learn about that too (beginner slopes again!)- sometimes I think 'grumpy' is our official national mood over here!
Retro - how can you tell when the Singer is at your door?
He can't find the key and doesn't know where to come in!
Brrrrm - tsh!
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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 1:29:50 PM
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| oooooo dasss a good one bruddah! ha ha ha |
If can, can. If no can, no can. |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 1:34:16 PM
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I learned this a long time ago and it is still true no matter how much I deny it.
GOOD PRACTICE ANNOYS OTHER PEOPLE
Ever listened to your daughter try and practice the saxophone in second grade? 
If you sit outside my "music room" you would hear the same thing when I practice. 
My "music room" is that room in the house where my wife or daughters can close the door so they don't have to listen to me practice.  Becasue I work on the stuff I CAN'T PLAY over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over . . .  One of these days I'm gonna be able to play WHEE HA! like Sonny .... One of these dayz!
Now you get it! 
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E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 3:05:25 PM
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Back in the late 70's when I was in school in Georgia I got interested in Bluegrass fingerpicking; Travis picking as it's better known. It's virtually the same as Slack Key picking. Alternate bass is the key. I did all the thumb practice ad nauseam (Peter, sorry 'bout the big word), but I still would occasionally lose it when I added the melody. Actually, I still do. My instructor said the brain is a funny thing, we want to hear the melody. If the bass is not right, we sense it, but if the melody is okay, we dismiss it. The thumb gets lazy. He told me to go ahead and nail down the melody. Once it becomes almost second nature, then practice and try to only listen to the bass line. Second, there are bass notes and melody notes that are always played together in a particular song. In Bluegrass it's often the 1 and 3, and Slack Key the 2 and 4. Those are the plucked (pinched/double stop) notes that you listen to when you are concentrating on the bass line. In Slack Key this is very important because many of the songs have Ragtime syncopation. Once you've nailed the melody, then the bass, then concentrate on hearing the notes that are played together. If you have the TAB, mark it with a highlighter. Next thing you know, your playing the piece the way it was written. Then, guess what?, you're thumb goes lazy. As Mark suggested, go back and rehearse it using the above scheme.
If you're playing with other folks and it's not your pa`ani, become the bass player. Only play the alternating bass line. Look at the other players and see what position they are playing their chords in. Play a different inversion occasionally while keeping the bass. That way you learn the progression, the song and the fretboard.
Lastly, I'm going to suggest one more thing. If you don't understand the progression of the song, you'll never understand the bass line. Usually, any TAB or score that you have will have a recording that you can listen to. Learn the progression first. Know where it's going. Play bass behind it. Tune to Standard if you have to.
In the grand scheme of things, when you play Slack Key #1 for your friends, do they say, "Wow', even though you screwed it up? (Thank you Peter and Ozzie) That's "jus' press". BTW: I know your wife's not impressed because she's heard it a zillion times. She knows you screwed up. The secret to traditional Slack Key is the bass line. Get it right and the melody takes care of itself. As talented as Gabby, Sonny, Atta, etc. were and Keola, Ozzie, Peter, etc., are, they practiced their asses off. They all figured out a way to execute the bass line. I'm just offer another voice.
BTW: I still have a lazy thumb.
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Edited by - `Ilio Nui on 06/05/2008 3:10:03 PM |
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 3:25:48 PM
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Hey, Joka, as a beginner I'll second the good advice you already got from the experts, especially the Thumbstruck method--just play thumb for a while. Couple things that worked for me--when my other fingers wanted to get into the act, I taped 'em together for a while. That shut them up.
If the just thumb method gets boring, try playing along (just bass) with a recording. I picked recordings in G with simple chords to start with. Led's recordings of Hawaii Aloha, Radio Hula and Ku`u Ipo Onaona worked fine. If you don't have them and want to try before you buy, look at mele.com.
Also, I didn't believe the metronome would help until I tried it. It does. If you don't have one, no problem--use this one. |
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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 6:14:45 PM
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mike2jb,
tanks fo da good tips! i can get those songs. i know some on you tube too. i love the online metronomes! da only ting, are dey dependent on your computer clock speed? i used to play sudoku wit my wife, and my clock always went faster den hers, since my computer was faster! no fair no?
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If can, can. If no can, no can. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2008 : 12:15:10 PM
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| Eh, Joka! Da method I wen' learn was from Kaua'i an' Ni'ihau, the place where my kumu's ohana was from. He taught me as he was taught, thumb first, 10 minutes a day. You HAVE to get bored with it, so that you can start to think of other things, like melody and improvising, then the thumb can take care of its job without thinking. People sharing living space are SUPPOSED to be driven crazy, it's a guage of progress. |
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