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cdyas
Akahai
67 Posts |
 Posted - 03/17/2003 : 4:12:28 PM
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While I was practicing this weekend I put on a cd to play along with to work on my timing and what I found not suprisingly was that I was way off. With little to no music training I often feel that I play sections too fast or too slow and was wondering a good way, if there is one to work on timing. I was thinking about a metronome type device to have on while I practice. Is this a good way to nurture timing or are there any other suggestion?
Chris
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2003 : 4:58:17 PM
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Hey Chris,
I think you pretty much answered your own question. Some variation of these come to mind:
1) Tap your foot
2) Play along with a CD
3) Get a metronome
If you're willing to play in front of your computer, try http://www.metronomeonline.com/ before going out and buying a metronome. Glad you asked. I'm going to try it myself. |
Andy |
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cdyas
Akahai
67 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2003 : 5:37:28 PM
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Number one was one of the problems. Moving 2 hands and adding one foot got cunfused especially when I added breathing.
The playing of a cd has helped, just kind of wondering if the metronome idea works. A valid question from the preveously un-musical.
Thanks, |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1021 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2003 : 7:01:05 PM
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Chris,
It's my opinion that you've stumbled on the secret to playing Slack Key - timing and phrasing. I think anyone can learn by rote drill (I speak from experience), but learning to "play" requires developing a sense of phrasing or timing and a feel for the music. In other genres, such as blues or jazz, this is the essence of maturing as a player (It took me years do do this in blues). I know that Ki Ho'alu is predicated on the constant, or alternating, base line, but the masters all have the feel of the song in their phrasing. I can play the notes, but I haven't yet learned to play the music to my satisfaction. Listening to the CD version of a tune should give you an idea of your direction, at least initially. Once the tune is in your head, make it your own. Don't necessarily try to parrot what you hear. As a example, listen to Dusty's version of Hal Kinneman's Hula Medley on the Taro Patch song site. He has a really cool "swing" to his playing that goes beyond standard meter. It's not necessarily better than Hal's, but it's different enough to be really fun to hear. I've tried playing with a metronome, but when I do ,I tend to fixate on the meter rather than getting the feel of the song and I end up messing it up and turning the metronome off.
Hope this helps. |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2003 : 8:27:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cdyas
The playing of a cd has helped, just kind of wondering if the metronome idea works. A valid question from the preveously un-musical.
A metronome not only works, it is one of the most important tools around for musical development, in my humble opinion.
The trick to using it is to p l a y painfully s l o w l y, so that you can absolutely play every note, transition, chord change, and position shift on the beat, and with some kind of feeling. Then set the metronome a little faster. Continue until you're playing at least a little faster than the final tempo you want to use. If you do this I think you'll be surprised at how quickly you progress. It's very awkward the first few times, but you will get over that hump pretty soon and it's all gravy after that.
As you get better, you'll learn to play against the metronome, getting a little ahead or behind the beat - on purpose - to add emotion. You can swing against the metronome, set it for one click per measure, set it for lots of clicks so you hear the 8th notes or even 16ths - it's just an amazing tool. A drum machine or a computer program can be a great metronome, and there are lots of electronic ones available that are very portable.
Playing along with a CD is also a great exercise, and gives some of the same benefits, but doesn't give you the ability to play super slow, then gradually add tempo.
As you can tell, I really recommend this approach.
Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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BreezePlease
Akahai
Japan
86 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2003 : 9:07:54 PM
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I also think a metronome is a must, unless you are one of the fortunate who were born with an perfect sense of timing. Only problem is that, if you haven't used one before, it takes a bit of getting used to.
I use a KORG MA-20: cheap, small and light. I mostly use it with an earphone, so as not to drive family members within earshot crazy...
-dean
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 12:11:11 AM
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| I haven't tried this, partly because I don't like to play guitar next to the computer, but several folks over at the AG forum liked the free download Weird Metronome. They proclaimed it cool. |
Pauline |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 12:58:24 AM
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I saw George Kahumoku a few weeks ago, and he tended to speed up and slow down throughout a song. It didn't ever ruin the feel of the song. When a hula dancer was on stage with him, however, he was rock solid on the beat.
And like a lot of old blues guitarists and improvisors, he threw in extra measures and rests here and there just for fun.
When I play in public (and I'm nervous--goes without saying), I usually speed up throughout the song. But if you can hold that tendency in check, perfect rhythm isn't that important, unless you're playing with someone else. Then you're screwed.
My two cents. About all it's worth.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Mainkaukau
Lokahi
USA
245 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 01:21:53 AM
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In the digital recording world the ability to keep the beat is essential. Today's recording programs require a systematic beat in order to find, blend, cover, erase or manipulate notes for the perfect sound. I was struggled the last time I tried digital recording. I suspect that it was because I play solo guitar most of the time and tend to lose that inner beat now and then because of all the improvision. I don't worry about.
A wise old lady once told me, "It comes from the heart". Hmmm...I wonder if she meant heart beats? |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 01:59:45 AM
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This is a good topic. I find that at every stage or plateau of my musical development, the idea of timing and phrasing comes up in a different way. Here's what I learned when playing solo in public: like most people, when I'm anxious, I have a tendency to speed up as I play through a song. Practice with a metronone is very helpful, as others have written about. My approach is a little different, hard to erxplain, but tends to work for me. It comes from something Carlo Maria Guilini, a classical conductor, said, "Sing this piece as if you are making love with every note." I'm trying to put that value in my practice and playing, and it's working in situations with low-moderate anxiety. (I find it a lot easier to play in situations in which I don't know the audience and vice-versa.) In public, though, phrasing and overall feel is more crucial than strict tempo. I work on phrasing in a couple of ways: I study the music and the text. I listen to as many different performances of a piece I'm trying to learn. and, fortunately, I study with George Kahumoku, so I get his valuable feedback. If you want to see how important phrasing is, listen to some Frank Sinatra or Eva Cassidy -- especially her "Over the Rainbow." Playing for dancers or playing with others is very different -- timing is much more important. The advantage to playing in a band or a group is that uually someone keeps the beat for you -- the bass player or the drummer/percussionist. With that "metronone" behind you, it is almost easy. Which brigs me to my last point -- if you want to use a metronone but wat to make it more interesting, you can try a drum machine, either standalone or computerized. Personaaly, I find it distracting, but I know some guys who love it.
Raymond
San Jose |
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aplenty
Akahai
62 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 02:45:22 AM
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Just my $.02... I feel playing to a metronome beat takes the heart out of slack key... the environment... the waves... the tradewinds... are the flow... they are the guides...
Steady rhythm is appropriate... but just like healthy heart and healthy brain waves... it's not uniform... it ebbs and flows... speeds up and slows down... to best carry the story of the song...
As far as playing with others... it's just playing and practicing... the art of listening... and syncing up to the other(s) players... it's an incredibly powerful experience to play together... with changing rhythms... feeling the way together...
Maybe a metronome works for other forms of music... I just don't feel it works with slack key. |
Aloha nui,
Sandy & Doug |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 10:38:00 AM
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Please let me add something to my endorsement of the metronome. I think it's a practice tool, not a guide to proper performance. It has been my experience that using the metronome to learn solid time provides a foundation for using time in a more expressive way.
As others mentioned, I've noticed a tendency to speed up under stress. I also found that I would tend toward a mid-tempo for everything - slow pieces would speed up, fast ones would slow down. Using the metronome as a practice tool helped me take control of the tempo and use it (hopefully) to enhance the music.
Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 10:49:45 AM
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| I very occasionally use a metronome when trying to iron out a troubling spot in a song. But even better, in general, I listen to a LOT of slack key and then play it over and over in my head. I imagine remembered rhythms and then play to those rhythms. Also a playing a lot of picking patterns (5 2 4 1, etc. ala Keoki Kahumoku & Patrick Landeza) over chord changes, thus making up tunes, helps me a lot. Listen to Doug McMaster's playing as he cherishes every note! His rhythm varies with the mood of the phrases of the song. |
Dusty |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 11:04:20 AM
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| I think the metronome can be a very helpful training aid, especially for someone with "little to no music training." Just making a very general statement... I think good timing is important to everyone but especially to players starting out. As one improves, you may inject feel and emotion through timing variations but you must have a good foundation in order to do that. In my opinion, a metronome will help more than hurt. |
Andy |
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Stacey
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 12:07:22 PM
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Aloha!
I find the metronome useful when I'm first learning a piece, but I try to get rid of it as soon as possible because I'd rather try to put some soul into the music. I feel that very rigid timing sounds wooden.
I also speed up when I'm nervous. It makes me feel better to know that I'm not the only one.  |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 2:25:37 PM
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Music comes from who we are -- the rhythms of our bodies inform every note and phrase. We have two strong pulses: the triple meter of our heartbeats and the duple meter of walking.
Want to play a polyrhythm? Take a long walk and tap out your heartbeat -- simple as that. You better bet it swings.
Phrasing relates to the breath -- how long can you sing? Ever wonder why begining improvisers sound so wanky? It's usually because they couldn't possibly sing the endless stream of notes they play while they noodle up and down the scale.
So what happens when we play music is that we fall into synch with our natural rhythms -- if we let that happen. (That's the secret to playing together, by the way.) Otherwise, our heartbeats and breathing change to fall into synch with the music.
If you are nervous and unsure of yourself, what happens? Your pulse rate quickens -- and so the music speeds up till you get back on solid ground, too.
And guess what? It makes anyone listening nervous, too
A metronome or drum machine is a worthwhile tool because it trains us to be aware of our internal rhythms. The only way to play to a machine-made steady beat is to surrender to it -- relax and, ummmm, go with the flow, Grasshopper.
If you are lucky enough to live within the sound of the waves, you are probably already in synch to that larger rhythm.
And how do some musicians (namely every traditionally-trained player on the planet) play in time? They learn to listen to the rhythms of their bodies. I can tell you from studying with master musicians from places as diverse as Gahna, Puerto Rico and Na'leans that learning to listen is a skill that requires lots of practice.
So, to metronome or not? Like I said, it's a tool. Practice is practice, you set a goal and you isolate something till it flows easily, be it a tricky fingering or learning to play in time.
Happy playing!
Mark
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