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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
 Posted - 07/31/2008 : 11:01:02 AM
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here's a summer style posting:
i started fingerpicking my guitar about 12 years ago. i used to use alaska finger picks, but now only use them when my fingernails are too short. and, i've been using a zookie thumb pick ever since i started finger picking. i still use the thumb pick, but i'm trying to wean myself off of it.
i'm trying to work out the best way to hit the string with my thumb. what do you do? do you use just the fleshy part of your thumb, or do you use the nail? if so, which part? or do you use both? what angle do you hold your thumb? do you change it around for different sounds? do you use a resting stroke on occasion similar to what one does with the (non-thumb) fingers?
thanks,
keith
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Edited by - marzullo on 07/31/2008 11:31:55 AM |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2008 : 11:22:24 AM
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Keith,
While there is a lot of variety in actual play, I can state the "base" position. If you hold your r hand straight out in front of you, thumb nail up, the thumb typically hits the string at about "10:00." That means that in play my thumb is out ahead of the other fingers. Typically I use some flesh and nail combined - the mix varies with how soft or sharp I want the sound. Typically a free stroke unless I want a very prominent base. (My guitar has a strong base response.) |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2008 : 1:09:19 PM
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Keith,
Strangely enough, Ozzie had much to say about this subject when I went to visit him. I was playing with a Fred Kelly speed pick and performed (rather badly) Paka 'Ua for him to "give me the once over". His immediate comment was that the pick did not allow me to paint a textured picture with my thumb -- that all the bass notes were the same volume and tone because of the pick. If that is what I wanted, I succeeded. He then played the exact same song on my guitar (my tuning as well) and let me listen and watch as he demonstrated the difference between bass notes that were meant to be part of the melody, bass notes that were in a supporting "chordal" role, and bass notes that were just soft enough to create a tonal canvas to accentuate the melody. WOW! was I impressed -- as thick skulled as I can be -- even I got the picture.
What he was doing was showing me that the proper use of the thumbnail, the thumbnail+flesh, and the fleshy part of the thumb were three different modes of playing the bass string (as well as a backhand brush stroke upward using only the curved back of the thumb. What I noticed was not the mechanics of thumb angle (eg. classical position versus progressive position) but the successful integration of the possibilities available using the different parts of the thumb that produce different sounds.
Since that time, I have been growing my thumbnail (much to my wife's amusement and scorn), and trimming it to not get the curved part on the outward side "hooking" the string but to allow me to combine the different parts of the thumb for different sounds. I know my playing has improved.
One of the important things he said was that Ki Ho'alu is distinctive in the use of pedal points, bass runs, and bass patterns, to reinforce the melody notes and make the guitar sound more than a single instrument (an advantage over the ukulele). The best players (in his opinion) were able to use the full pallet of sounds from the thumb to their advantage. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Pops
Lokahi
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2008 : 4:37:09 PM
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Keith,
I use the fleshy part of my thumb. I never use my nails. I also tend to "dig" into the string a little. This gives a lilt to my right hand that makes playing for a long period comfortable for me. Good luck! |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2008 : 08:11:40 AM
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I learned something about thumb nails a while back. There is one important thing to watch out for.
If your nail is too short it will cause a secondary metalic click. To me it is an ugly sound and the cause was not obvious at first. It drove me nuts until I figured out that the thumb nail has to be longer to work well. Mine is twice as long as my finger nails for instance. My fingernails are about 1/16 inch BTW.
You also have to taper in the nail corners to prevent string snaging.
Short only works if your thumb nail is very closely cut---- and I mean "nail-biter" close. |
Bob |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2008 : 1:06:49 PM
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hi all, thank you for the advice!
mika`ele and i talked about thumbnails at the USA kanikapila on thursday. he told me how his wife is quite amused he's stressing about his thumbnail, trying to grow it out ^_^ bob, i noticed that problem of snagging, and have been filing it down. raymond, thanks for the positioning; that helps a lot.
this is going to be a lot of work.
aloha
keith
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2008 : 07:03:34 AM
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| Because of work (window washer), I keep my nails SHORT. Every time I play without picks, I use callous. Style is based on limitation. Like my dad used to tell me, "Play accurate, play clean." |
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basilking
Lokahi
124 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2008 : 12:11:55 AM
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| I get acrylic nails applied by a salon [yes, many threads here and elsewhere on this] to thumb + 3 as my nails have always been weak. Use a Zookie for some things [I call it a "thump-pick" for that big palm-muted bass "Chunk" it facilitates]. Recent activity replacing our kitchen sink/plumbing validates thumbstruck's remarks; physical work with hands isn't kind to longer nails. I've long thought that bare-fingers w/choice of how much nail to use was "best". If playing with or for other folks outdoors/unamplified the thump-pick can help though it does reduce articulation & subtlety as Mika ele's report on Ozzie's lovely explanantions shows. Ahh well, I'm not renowned for personal articulation & subtlety in any "case"... |
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Allen M Cary
Lokahi
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2008 : 08:28:10 AM
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Aloha kakou,
There is a very comprehensive essay on this subject by Michael Chapdelaine, Professor of Classical guitar at U New Mexico and renowned fingerstylist. On his website he posts stuff for his UNM Students. Go to www.michaelchapdelaine.com and look under the UMN heading, then select lesson one. This talks about tone, for the classical guitarist, but it certainly applies to any of us. He has some detailed instructons on how he expects his students' nails to be prepared. I just wish my damn index finger nail would grow without a crack in the middle...
Allen |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2008 : 1:54:37 PM
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allen,
thanks for posting the link...
aloha,
keith
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2008 : 12:40:06 PM
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this is a reply to braddah slkho - who doesn't have an email address available here on taropatch - which is why i didn't invite him to the party 'cause i did it at the last minute, which is a lame excuse but it's the best i have.
everyone else - it's been five days since i'm been thumbpickless. i'm past the "denial" stage. as my thumbnail grows more, i expect it to get easier...
aloha,
keith
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bbenzel
Lokahi
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2008 : 12:57:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by marzullo
this is a reply to braddah slkho - who doesn't have an email address available here on taropatch - which is why i didn't invite him to the party 'cause i did it at the last minute, which is a lame excuse but it's the best i have.
everyone else - it's been five days since i'm been thumbpickless. i'm past the "denial" stage. as my thumbnail grows more, i expect it to get easier...
aloha,
keith
Make it work!!!  |
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JeffC
Lokahi
USA
189 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2008 : 1:14:05 PM
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Aloha Keith
Ditto what Braddah Duke said what Mika ele said! I tried thumbpicks a long time ago (pre-slack key for me)and could never get things to sound the way I wanted. Made my thumb too much of a blunt instrument. As I've gotten more and more into slack key my technique and control (ability to change angle and attack when I want to get the tonal qualities I want) has gotten better.
JC |
Jeff
Making Trout Country safe for Slack Key! |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 07:35:17 AM
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| It seemed that all the pros in Hawai'i were using thumb picks. I just never got the hang of it myself. The same goes for flatpicking. I'd watch Willie K and be in awe that he could play bass rythym and lead in his inimitable style. But using picks is just too mechanical for me. My steel playing offers me the same experience. I took off the finger picks and just use the thumb pick. However you don't want to hear me play the steel just yet. So I jus play slack nekked like most of you foks on this thread. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 08/07/2008 07:35:57 AM |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2008 : 05:10:36 AM
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e noeau e,
at my very first aloha music camp, one instructor encouraged us to use a thumb pick but not finger picks - like what cyril pahinui does. so, i ditched the alaska picks and concentrated on sounding expressive with a thumb pick. but, a lot of my role models - john keawe, keola beamer, kevin brown - don't use thumb picks.
slkho sent me a lot of information off-thread, which i'll thank here. i was lucky to be one of the first people to show him a bit of slack key, and so it's great to have the roles reversed. like mica`ele, he wrote about the increased expressiveness one gets going pickless.
after 11 days, following all the advice here, working on some of the exercises chapdelaine outlined, and hiding all my thumbpicks, and it's starting to come together. thanks again,
aloha,
keith
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Edited by - marzullo on 08/10/2008 05:20:55 AM |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2008 : 08:23:25 AM
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11 days == pretty fast to switch a fundamental
congrats |
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