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Trev
Lokahi

United Kingdom
265 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 : 02:57:45 AM

To be honest, it's not a word I use. I've only ever seen it used in the context of heavy rock - a fairly recent coinage. As I am a British national, I have to be careful - Brits using American slang usually sound embarrassing and ridiculous.

The bands and afficionados of the 'Shrapnel' label used to use 'shredding' to describe their playing. Very technically demanding, and sounded impressive when I was about 20, but by the time I was 25 it just sounded like a bunch of guys going 'widdly widdly widdly' up at where the frets go thin, and I was rather bored with it.

I agree with Sir Duke that not anyone can play slow and mellow, I think it's quite hard to do well.

Slack key of the type Sir Duke mentions - "Wheeha Swing" etc are not like that to my ears. There's always a theme - a melody. The heavy metal guys sounded like they were practising scales half the time. Look Dad, no tunes! Actually one day I was surprised when I plugged an electric mandolin into a Marshall amp, and played in a fairly ordinary way. With that electric guitar sound it sounded a lot more impressive than it really was.

Mark - I've got a new mandolin which I'll be bringing to camp. It's a really good one, and I'm still very excited just about having it. I'm really looking forward to camp so much! And it's only three weeks and half a world away!

wcerto
Ahonui

USA
5052 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 : 04:58:47 AM

Trev - I know this trip has to be a labor of love for you. I thought 9 hours for us to get from Cleveland to Honolulu was bad. I cannot imagine what your trip will be like.I'll bet it will take you two days or so to get there. Should stop over in Cleveland. I think there is a Continental direct flight between London & Cleveland. Wishing you nothing but smooth flying! It is all worth it once you get there.

Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda

Mark
Ha`aha`a

USA
1628 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 : 09:34:40 AM

quote:
As I am a British national, I have to be careful - Brits using American slang usually sound embarrassing and ridiculous.

As opposed to Americans using British slang, which makes us sound sophisticated and witty. Gear fab, pip pip, suss it out.

quote:
Someone please define shredding.

First time I ever heard it, it was surfer slang to describe the way the kids on itty bitty boards attacked the waves. Or maybe the skaters had it first... Take a look at the documentary "Dogtown and Z Boys" for some scary footage of surfers at the site of the derelict POP pier in Santa Monica.... Anyway, it was a long time ago.

Sometime later (I think) it got applied to metal guitarists like Ingwie Malmstein, Steve Vai & Eddie Van-Hotdog-- who played diminished scales over major chords as streams of 128th notes.

Now it seems to mean 1) any one who plays fast ("Golly, Clem, listen to old Elmo shred that banjo.."), or 2) anyone who plays with tons of distortion. (Which would include Link Wray, who literally shredded his speaker cone to get that sound on "Raunchy.")

Yep, I got me a "shred" setting on one of my stomp boxes. I use it to play mellow....

As for John McLoughlin: I wouldn't can his playing "shredding." I call it amazing.

Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu

546 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 : 12:34:50 PM

So is it slack key den? Watchoo tink?

cpatch
Ahonui

USA
2187 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 : 1:44:07 PM

From the "official" Wikipedia definition:

"Dave Celentano's book Secrets of Shred Guitar argues that '...the secrets of shred', include 'sweep, alternate and tremolo picking; string skipping; multi-finger tapping; legato, [and] trills.' The instructional book Guitar Shred includes exercises on '...Speed Building, Legato, Tapping, [and] Sweep Picking.' The GuitarPlayer.com reviewer of the book Shred! claims that the book covers the '...techniques shredders need to know—sweep picking, tapping, legato playing, whammy bar abuse, speed riffing, [and] thrash chording.' Shred guitarists also use two- or three-octave scale or mode, played ascending and descending at a fast tempo. This run or lick can be played by individually picking all, or a selection, of the notes, using techniques such as alternate picking, or economy picking. Alternatively, the lick can be played by multiple-picking notes (tremolo picking), or picking just the first or second note of a string followed by a rapid succession of hammer-ons and/or pull-offs (legato)."

This is also what I understand shredding to be. As such, I have yet to hear anything that even claims to be slack key that falls into the category of shredding. Fast, yes. Shredding, no.

To answer Peter's question, I don't think slack key can shred.

Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can.

Edited by - cpatch on 01/16/2009 1:49:02 PM

bolofusion
Aloha

USA
46 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 : 4:26:13 PM

Do you think this is shredding,this is by the way dry no effects as can tell but just wanted to know what you think.
And yes this improvised piece is called slack key shred.
hopefully im putting this link on the right way,or you can checkout www.youtube.com/bolomusic222.
I was in benicia 2yrs ago and met at a major jam session Jimmy dunlop,owner of Dunlop effects, picks ,etc. and anyway played some slack key stuff for him then started to do arppeggios,scales etc.with slack key and he loved it called me hawaiian shredder which is funny because of the topic here ( also got to play Randy Roads,his real flying v.) i do play rock,metal,blues, will be uploading some stuff youtube.
You know in context,playing guitar,ukulele, music in general is life to me.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9WR9Ar9wkZc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9WR9Ar9wkZc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

cpatch
Ahonui

USA
2187 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 : 7:56:13 PM

Hey Bolo, here's the correct link (you just need to copy and paste the YouTube URL):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WR9Ar9wkZc

The link for your channel is:

http://www.youtube.com/bolomusic22

From a technical standpoint there's no question that you have mad skills! And yes, I would call what you're doing in this particular example shredding. The question is whether or not it's still slack key. Personally I feel that you've lost the soul of the music that to me is a key component of slack key but I'm a haole so what do I know? I'd be interested to hear from others who aren't.

Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can.

Edited by - cpatch on 01/16/2009 8:00:08 PM

slipry1
Ha`aha`a

USA
1511 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 : 10:02:35 PM

quote:
Someone please define shredding.

quote:
First time I ever heard it, it was surfer slang to describe the way the kids on itty bitty boards attacked the waves. Or maybe the skaters had it first... Take a look at the documentary "Dogtown and Z Boys" for some scary footage of surfers at the site of the derelict POP pier in Santa Monica.... Anyway, it was a long time ago.

My surfing days WERE long ago (late 50's thru 1972), and to shred a wave meant to be in utter control over it - i.e. to dominate the wave. btw, my loopiness can be directly correlated with my attempts to shoot the piers at POP and at Huntington Beach, not to mention several trips to the center of the earth whilst body surfing the Wedge at Newport Beach -over the falls, Brah!

keaka

bolofusion
Aloha

USA
46 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2009 : 08:35:31 AM

I will be posting more of my nahenahe mellow stuff on myspace.com/bolomusic222 and youtube.com/bolomusic22 but for now headed to U.H Hilo for jam at da Ho'olaulea if anybody out there stop by going be good fun I play at 4pm-5;30, i going be shredding!

lol
a hui hou
b

Russell Letson
`Olu`olu

USA
504 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2009 : 09:07:34 AM

Trev and Mark have the key to this matter: the term doesn't really apply to slack key, except in a watered-down sense of "playing real fast." "Shredding" is part of the heavy-metal world, and to my ear, Bolo slips into it at :22 of his YouTube video. Those high-speed scale passages come from a different sonic universe, and the sytlistic shift is quite obvious.

Slack key seems always to have had a show-off side, the up-tempo/lotsa-notes kind of playing that just about any tradition includes. Once in a conversation with the Kanes about whether slack key had to be nahenahe (which was the position Raymond was defending at the time), Elodia called the fast stunt-playing of Fred Punahoa "back-yard" style. And Sonny has said that "Whee-Ha Swing" came out of competitive picking sessions with two friends. I suppose one could call "Whee-Ha" and "Punahoa Special" and such tunes "slack key shredding," but it's about as apt as calling them "slack key boogie" or "slack key breakdown."

So--is there a Hawaiian term for show-offy, up-tempo tunes? I confess that I haven't come across one, but then informants are pretty thin on the (frozen solid) ground in Minnesota.

Mark
Ha`aha`a

USA
1628 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2009 : 1:43:02 PM