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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 04/13/2009 : 2:27:58 PM
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Yunz probably going to think I am really stupid about this, but.....
How can a song be called hula if there are no words to it?
Does it have to do with being 4/4 time? I thought the whole idea of hula is to tell a story....
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2009 : 3:10:44 PM
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| I guess you just watch da hands (on da guitar). |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2009 : 6:23:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Yunz probably going to think I am really stupid about this, but.....
How can a song be called hula if there are no words to it?
A: If it is an instrumental rendition of a hula, it's possible. I wouldn't change the name just because the performer did an instrumental version. To label a purely instrumental composition a "hula" or "mele" would be inaccurate. Both terms imply use of a text, AFAIC.
quote:
Does it have to do with being 4/4 time? I thought the whole idea of hula is to tell a story....
A "hula" is a musical form which contains a sung or chanted text. Dance is optional.
You could do a hula in 3/4, as long as the dancer has three legs. ;-)
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Edited by - keoladonaghy on 04/13/2009 6:52:38 PM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 02:53:34 AM
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Mahalo, Keola. How lucky we are on Taro Patch to have such experts available to help us. I surely appreciate it.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 01:54:46 AM
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| I still can't get used to something being called a 'song' if there is no singing in it. It's just to do with differences in how we use language I suppose. |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 06:14:00 AM
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There are different degrees of permitted imprecision--in everyday English, "song" gets applied to almost any short piece of popular music, probably because most short tunes do originate as songs-with-words. But few English speakers would call a longer composition (say, a sonata) a song. Native speakers of American English unfamiliar with the distinctions made by Hawaiians are going to tend to call a short Hawaiian instrumental a hula if its melody and meter sound hula-like to them. This kind of imprecision applies to everybody--I invite the non-Irish here to distinguish between a jig and a slip jig. In fact, there may be those among us who will confuse a jig and a hornpipe, though those meters are quite distinct, and will call any up-tempo Irish-sounding tune a jig. It's all a matter of how much experience you have with the music, how good your ear is, and how informed you are about cultural and terminological matters.
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 04/15/2009 06:15:42 AM |
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Allen M Cary
Lokahi
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 9:26:43 PM
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The Scots make a distinction, calling an instrumental piece a "tune" , generally pronounced "tyoon", as opposed to a song, which by definition has words. I'm not sure that such linguistic differentiation exists in Hawaiian. btw jigs are 6/8, reels are 4/4, hornpipes 2/4. 'fraid I don't know about slip jigs.
Aloha,
Allen |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 12:44:21 AM
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Well, I was just puttin 2 and 2 together and getting 4/4. Ha-ha. One music joke, get it?
After my brief studies into hula and trying to learn to dance, I got to thinkin, I like "Slack Key Hula" but how you gonna dance when no words. You cannot. That's all. Cannot dance, cannot just stand up and flap yo' hands and ami til you get a back ache.
Hula goes way back past all dem jigs, reels and whatevah. I suspect it may have developed as a memory joggin device - to help the one chanting to remember and the one chanting helps the dancers to rember, as well.
Can you imagine someone being able to recite the entire Kumulipo? I think pver 2,000 lines.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 08:12:13 AM
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quote:
'fraid I don't know about slip jigs.
9/8... (ONE-two-three-FOUR-five-six-SEV'N-eight-nine). Though the actual pulse works out to something closer to a heart beat when you play rhythm accompaniment...
And Kerry slides are 12/8... or at least that's one way to count 'em. They sound like an insanely fast jig.
I think the name "Slack Key Hula" is just shorthand for "I don't know the names of the melodies..."
Sorta like all the tunes named "Joe O'Dowd's" (a jig) or "Delahunty's Hornpipe"--they had names once but now we call 'em after who we learned 'em from.
When I sat at Joe O'Dowd's feet many years ago, half the tunes he played were called "Oh, don't ask me that now..."
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 09:40:22 AM
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Celtic-music newbie: Jeez, all these tunes sound the same. How do you tell 'em apart?
Canny old fiddler (channeling Valley Girl): Well, they've got names. . . |
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 11:24:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by keoladonaghy
quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Yunz probably going to think I am really stupid about this, but.....
How can a song be called hula if there are no words to it?
A: If it is an instrumental rendition of a hula, it's possible. I wouldn't change the name just because the performer did an instrumental version.
Whew! Thanks, Keola. For a minute I thought I was going to have to stop playing "Moloka`i Waltz" and just play ... uh ... "Moloka`i".
Never could make my feet do that 3/4 thing. ;-) |
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cmdrpiffle
`Olu`olu
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2009 : 7:44:56 PM
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Kaopuiki Aloha...Justin's Lullaby... beautiful Hula, no words...
just sayin'
Mike |
my Poodle is smarter than your honor student |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2009 : 11:48:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cmdrpiffle
Kaopuiki Aloha...Justin's Lullaby... beautiful Hula, no words...
just sayin'
Mike
Not hula, AFAIK. Beautiful instrumental compositions. Not mele. Not hula. |
Edited by - keoladonaghy on 04/18/2009 11:54:50 PM |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2009 : 11:52:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mike2jb
quote:
Originally posted by keoladonaghy
quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Yunz probably going to think I am really stupid about this, but.....
How can a song be called hula if there are no words to it?
A: If it is an instrumental rendition of a hula, it's possible. I wouldn't change the name just because the performer did an instrumental version.
Whew! Thanks, Keola. For a minute I thought I was going to have to stop playing "Moloka`i Waltz" and just play ... uh ... "Moloka`i".
Never could make my feet do that 3/4 thing. ;-)
I wrote a mele to some music Kenneth Makuakāne did last year, and at first called it Ho‘oipo Hula. Within a few minutes of completing it I realized it was in 3/4 and changed in to Ho‘opio Waltz. As yet unrecorded. |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 08:25:07 AM
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Single & double jigs are written in 6/8, slip jigs are in 9/8. Single & double jigs differ in how the notes are sincopated, I think. I've played some reels & hornpipes on dulcimer & banjo, but the jigs were avoided in most of the jams I played in, as of us were listening to southern Appalachian styles, rather than celtic. The jigs seem to be more common in the farther north part of the western hemisphere, Nova Scotia, Cape Bretton, etc. And still very big in Ireland and Scotland.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 03:21:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by rendesvous1840
Single & double jigs are written in 6/8, slip jigs are in 9/8. Single & double jigs differ in how the notes are sincopated, I think. I've played some reels & hornpipes on dulcimer & banjo, but the jigs were avoided in most of the jams I played in, as of us were listening to southern Appalachian styles, rather than celtic. The jigs seem to be more common in the farther north part of the western hemisphere, Nova Scotia, Cape Bretton, etc. And still very big in Ireland and Scotland.
Paul
Don't forget New England, Paul. Contra dancers like jigs. |
keaka |
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