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Ipu
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
 Posted - 04/23/2003 : 7:22:49 PM
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Ok, so I thought about buying a new Gibson Hummingbird for a long time. Today I played one (new). It was nice but $$$. Then I picked up this Tacoma DK40 with koa back and sides and spruce top. Nice and 1/2 the price. Then I started thinking about koa guitars. What are the qualities of an all koa guitar? What are the properties of the wood, etc.? Would a mix of koa and spruce give a nice blend. The store didn't have any all koa guitars. I will be on Kauai this summer. I'm sure to encounter some all koa models. Any input on the koa guitar subject would be appreciated. Also, does anyone have any experience with Tacoma. Any other companies have koa ( or part koa) guitars for around $1000? The good news is that now that I'm over this whole Hummingbird thing now maybe I can afford a kamaka tenor too.
Mahalo,
Buddy
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Buddy Dubay |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2003 : 8:48:55 PM
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You will most likely find more guitars on the mainland than in Kauai. The stores I know of: Larrys in Kapaa, Music Hut in Kapaa, Scotty's in Kalaheo and Hanalei Music & Video all have extremely meager collections of guitars. I don't know of a store in Lihue (there may be I just don't know). You may find more on other islands.
If you can plan a stopover in So Cal you could try Buffalo Brothers in Carlsbad but I'm sure there are places close to you. |
Dusty |
Edited by - wdf on 04/23/2003 8:49:58 PM |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2003 : 9:03:57 PM
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dusty is right, you'll probably do better on the mainland.
although, the long's in lahaina usually has a great collection of kamaka ukuleles.
(then again, long's is the place to go whenever you need *anything*. i think that they have the open heart surgery room right behind where they sell the poi and the leis).
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Keith |
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duke
Lokahi
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 12:17:25 AM
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Aloha Buddy-- A few weeks ago I had an opportunity to chat with Steve Grimes of Grimes Guitars. I asked him about an all koa guitar and he said he doesn't recommend it. Said koa is fine for sides and back but for the top, he didn't feel that a koa soundboard would give the resonation you'd get, say, with cedar or spruce.
Duke |
Edited by - duke on 04/24/2003 12:18:25 AM |
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enr1co
Aloha
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 02:07:30 AM
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Hi Buddy,
As WDF mentioned, check out Buffalobrosguitars.com ( if you
are unable to go to Carlsbad physically). They stock
plenty of koa guitars/various makers and can advise you on some of your inquiries. For koa guitars, it would be safe to say
they love the ones made by James Goodall- a bit pricey but
worth every penny.
enrico
quote:
Originally posted by Ipu
Ok, so I thought about buying a new Gibson Hummingbird for a long time. Today I played one (new). It was nice but $$$. Then I picked up this Tacoma DK40 with koa back and sides and spruce top. Nice and 1/2 the price. Then I started thinking about koa guitars. What are the qualities of an all koa guitar? What are the properties of the wood, etc.? Would a mix of koa and spruce give a nice blend. The store didn't have any all koa guitars. I will be on Kauai this summer. I'm sure to encounter some all koa models. Any input on the koa guitar subject would be appreciated. Also, does anyone have any experience with Tacoma. Any other companies have koa ( or part koa) guitars for around $1000? The good news is that now that I'm over this whole Hummingbird thing now maybe I can afford a kamaka tenor too.
Mahalo,
Buddy
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1021 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 1:11:23 PM
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To IPU,
I have a Taylor K420 all koa. I got it used at Buffalo Bros for $1000. It's a dreadnaught, so it's a little harder to play Ki Ho Alu. I like the tone, but it is a little muted, especially using Elixir coated strings. When I bought it, I was trying out a Taylor koa with a spruce top that I liked a lot. I thought the total koa had a warmer sound and since I don't perform, I only had to please myself. From my perception, the deal with koa is a "connection" to the islands. I also have a RainSong that I play the most. It's more fun to play, but I get a different "feeling" when I pick up the Koa. Maybe I'm nuts. |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 1:27:01 PM
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I've played a number of all-koa guitars--most recently a 1925 Martin 0-18K--and find that the sound *in general* is a bit like mahogany--tight and resonant but not quite as round as spruce or cedar or redwood. Personally, I like the sound, but it may not be for everyone. And construction can trump almost any wood characteristic.
The koa Tacomas I've tried have been well built and very nice sounding, especially for the money. But let your ears, and not generalizations about woods, guide you. (For example, I rarely like modern Gibsons and especially find Hummingbirds to be underperformers, but every once in a while I hear a really nice one. Go figure.)
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cdyas
Akahai
67 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 2:29:27 PM
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| The Goodall Guitars website has a nice section on top tonewoods explaining what you should expect from them. Since you have a budget in mind, go play as many guitars that you can in that budget and let your opinion and feeling guide you. |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 4:09:38 PM
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Aloha e Ipu,
Koa definitely can work. I have a koa/cedar parlor-size guitar, and it *loves* double-slack. It's developed beautifully, and the koa (I think) gives the tone a bit of an old-timey sparkle, while the cedar gives it the mellowness for slack key. It was made by Hank Mauel, of California. (actually, that's it in my membah's peetcha deah, and it's name is Keikikoa  )
In looking at guitars and other koa artwork, however, I've concluded there is koa, and then there is koa, and then there is koa... I.e., the wood is very variable, as it depends on what part of the tree -- or root -- it comes from, and what tree, and the age, and all that. I've played koa guitars that sounded dead (there was a Takamine the sales guy claimed "rang like a bell" -- not!) So I'm kinda wary of koa guitars by the bigger companies. However, only playing one will tell, and there might be some good ones that came out by accident without special wood selection. BTW, I've heard before, too, what Duke reports Steve Grimes as saying about koa not being good for a top.
We have a Goodall koa/spruce and it, too, is wonderful -- thanks to James Goodall. However, he has less hands-on in the guitarmaking process than he used to, and if it were me buying, I'd look for a real nice used Goodall, one he made several years or more ago. When we visited his shop in 2000, he was only doing some final top sanding, and had turned most of his work over to his crew - and the new models seem to be designed to make for easier production. (No shame, the guy wants to be able to retire on something!)
aloha,
Sarah
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kamalu70
Aloha
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 8:55:20 PM
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Aloha:
Just some of my personal observations and experiences on this topic. I know several luthiers who swear by the koa/spruce combination. Recently, I spent a couple of hours talking to a good old friend from HI who now lives on the west coast (yeah...big phone bill). He had recently visited with Richard Hoover at Santa Cruz Guitars. He told me Richard's personal favorite guitar woods are koa b/s w/ a spruce top. He believes that combination gives you a very articulated sound, where every note can be heard even when playing chords, and gives you better highs. Michael Sussman of Anahola, Kaua`i (maker of Roland Cazimero's double 12-string neck guitar) also swears by this combination.
I've played koa topped guitars, they usually look really cool but have a relatively dark sound...close to those all mahogany guitars that Martin puts out now. I have an older Martin all mahogany 00-17 that has a lot more high end but I think it may be because of the relatively short scale length.
My koa/spruce Taylor 414-KCE does display the articulation that Richard Hoover talks about. Compared to my Santa Cruz standard OM (rosewood/spruce), the notes have better separation and the highs are slightly better. I just wished the Taylor didn't feel like I was playing a piece of furniture (all you Taylor fans can start bashing me now  ). Hope that helps.
play on,
kamalu  |
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Ipu
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 9:52:22 PM
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Mahalo to all who replied. to My Koa question. It sounds like spruce t and s and koa back is a good bet. The Tacoma dk40 definately articulated every note. Great mid range. For the price I will probably go for it. Now I just have to find the $$$. Hey what are the music store on kauai good for?
Buddy |
Buddy Dubay |
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jcfergus
Aloha
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 11:33:42 PM
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Greetings,
You asked...
quote:
Also, does anyone have any experience with Tacoma.
I have a Tacoma JK50CE4. This is a jumbo cut-away body, koa back and sides, spruce top, and unfortunately, electronics. I spent a fair amount of time playing guitars, with my primary comparison measure, "How does it sound in a C tuning?" My experience is that most guitars handle taropatch tuning pretty well, but not many do as well when tuned down to C.
I finally decided on the Tacoma because I found nothing I could get my hands on to play, that sounded as good in the slacked tuning, yet still had a good treble response. The only exceptions were a the Huss & Dalton MJC (~$4k) and a Lowden (model unknown, ~$3.5k). The Tacoma seems equally comfortable played hard and loud or gently. I always play bare-finger, so that may have an impact on what I heard when auditioning the various guitars.
I spent a fair amount of time auditioning Taylors, as I already have a 712C and love playing it, but didn't think any of the Taylors had the same rich sound. On the really low notes, the Tacoma reminds me of a piano almost.
The various dreadnoughts I tried (Collings, SCGC, Martin, etc.) had the bass I was looking for but seemed to lack in overall balance especially at the high-end. This was especially noticeable from the 10th fret and up on the high string.
I suppose one could attribute some of the difference in sound to the bracing design and the resulting difference in top thickness allowed by the bracing, which is somewhat less traditional on the Tacoma than most other guitars.
Besides the excellent sound the other really great thing about the Tacoma was the price; less than half the price of a Taylor K14C. I got mine new for less than $1200. You do give up some on the workmanship, but only on the really fine detail.
I can't really comment on the difference the koa makes in sound, as I could only find the Tacoma jumbo model in koa. It is a beautiful istrument. The color is rich and very appealing. I enjoy looking at it even when my fingers are too sore to play anymore.
I suspect there are too many variables in trying to determine what the "best" wood is in any objective way. I think finding the guitar that you really connect with, feel good about playing and want to play it everytime you see it or think about it is the guitar made from the "best" wood.
I would say the only downside of the Tacoma jumbo is the size. It has a big body and can be somewhat uncomfortable to hold on your lap. But it sure does sound good.
Hope this helps you find that special instrument.
Jim
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Jim Ferguson
Roseville, CA |
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ohanabrown
Lokahi
281 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2003 : 08:41:43 AM
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Aloha Gang
I agree with Duke, "All Koa guitars" tend to have a much higher tone. If I closed my eyes and someone played me 5 different guitars I could tell which one is the all Koa.
All Koa is "Not Bad", But it gives you a much "Higher Tone", I think to equal the sound you need to get a string that has a lower tone like "EarthWood", Koa has a high tone, And EarthWood strings has a low tone, It should then, Equal out the tone of the guitar.
When I mention all Koa, I mean, Front, Back, and Sides.
If you have a guitar that has a lot of Low's then you should try the GHS Bright Bronze it should have a much cleaner sound because of the strings, and it should give you a balance tone too.
Im not an expert, But I've been experimenting for years and this is what I came up with.
It works for me and my friends.
Hey a guitar is a guitar, If your happy with it don't change. Everyone has there own feel and hearing for what they want. Just enjoy!
Malama Pono!
Kevin
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Kevin K. Brown |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2003 : 5:42:39 PM
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There are a few other options for a Koa guitar besides the Taylor/Larrivee/Martin/Tacoma stratosphere.
For instance, there's an Alvarez on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2525248389&category=33022
Also, Takamine makes a nice Koa parlor guitar (called a New Yorker), which isn't very loud, but plays nicely and has good electronics if you need it. It's around $900 new and you can often find them used for less. The Koa guitars I have played didn't have the resonance of spruce, but were stunning to look at.
Jesse Tinsley |
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konavet
Aloha
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2003 : 03:34:40 AM
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I love this stuff! Koa is obviously one of the most beautiful woods in the world, and one can't ignore the visual appeal of an all koa guitar. I have an all koa jumbo (Taylor K15c) that has a wonderful unique tonal quality. It's very piano-like, with a stong attack and rapid decay, much like an archtop, but with more resonance. Not everyone's cup of tea, but great for some styles. Not my favorite for kiho'alu, but excellent for other styles in standard and open tuning.
My favorite tonewood combo is koa back and sides with cedar soundboard. The koa tends to give a sharp attack which lends to string separation critical in fingerstyle playing. The cedar top mellows the quality and results in a rich pure tone. If I had to keep only one guitar, it would be my Goodall grand concert koa/cedar. It's got more range of tonal quality than any guitar I've ever played (and I've played a few). I know everyone has opinions about tonewood combos, but I really think the koa/cedar combo is worth checking out. In my opinion it's the best combination of esthetics and tone. |
Dr. Pat |
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Mainkaukau
Lokahi
USA
245 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2003 : 12:28:16 PM
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| I love the sound of steel strings. the "Twang", the piercing high tones, the haunting chimes but for some strange reason I prefer to play a good Classical guitar with nylon strings. It may be because of the softness of the strings. It may be because of the width and length of the fingerboard. I did enjoy playing a ukulele with steel strings once. Any opinions about a good classical guitar vs a good steel string guitar? |
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