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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
 Posted - 09/05/2007 : 09:21:35 AM
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I gathered together all my notes on C Mauna Loa and made a sketchy document of them. It is like my thingy about Atta's C (and refers to that for reasons that will be obvious) but is less detailed.
For expediency, I put it on the same web page as the Omni mic tests of long ago - it is the bottom link. If you click on it, you will download a Word doc. Not big at all.
It is at:
http://home.comcast.net/~hawaiianmusic/index.html
...Reid
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 09:49:29 AM
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Reid,
I'm not a fan of "reply all" but since there is no other way to reach you - Mahalo nui loa.
Good research, great text.
Larry |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 3:08:44 PM
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Reid,
Email me and I can send send you a PDF of what I use in tablature and music notation. I have been tinkering around with C 6th Mauna Loa after I had a lesson with Ozzie back in May. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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basilking
Lokahi
124 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2007 : 5:15:06 PM
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| I sure appreciated hearing the mp3 of Opihi Moemoe on yr site, Reid, as well as being greatly impressed with your scholarly delectation of Atta's & Gabby's tunings. I've an old Leonard Kwan instr book but am not facile with tab; Ledward's low-C Taropatch { I call it "key of L" for Leonard & Led}version is the one I hear in my head and emulate by ear. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 03:03:03 AM
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I am glad that someone is getting some use out of these tuning docs. Basically, I did them in order to figure out how to approach and play them myself, and understand what they made easy and what they made hard. The first one on Atta's C was stimulated (as so many things have been) by a piece arranged by Ozzie that Sarah and I wanted to play (as well as listening to Atta's and Gabby's recordings). I do essentially the same thing for every tuning, including Taro Patch long ago, and C6 now that I am learning lap steel.
Basil, given a choice, I would prefer to learn by ear as you suggest you do. But, I am not that talented. So, I have to fall back on more intellectual approaches. In that vein, I find it interesting that playing my lap steel in C6 is much more intuitive for me than acoustic guitar. Maybe it is partly because I can slide into a note that sounds proper, rather than "jumping" to it. But it is also true that I understand the note/chord patterns better in C6, *regardless* of the key in which a song is being played, and my string/fret choices always just happen to coincide with those that pros use. I am not sure why that is true. I still have to refer to my fretboard map occasionally when arranging however - I am still a beginner.
I am also happy that you enjoyed that MP3 clip of Opihi Moemoe, Basil. Recall that it is just a part of the full song that Sarah plays, and that all those clips are totally unprocessed tests of 2 inexpensive omni microphones placed very close to the guitar. I wanted opinions of them, from the Golden Ears here, on the character of the sound. So, the songs could be made to sound much better (there is another thread all about that). Nonetheless, if you like it, you like it, and that is nice, including as a bit of feedback.
...Reid |
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 04:26:09 AM
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Reid-
I’ll add my appreciation to Basil’s for your analysis of these two tunings, particularly helpful to me as I seem to be “stuck” in taropatch and forever sampling out different C tunings to see if there’s one I want to get serious about. Since I’m one of those “analytical” learners (discussed here on another thread) your methodical thinking-through of the tunings makes them way less scary to me. Thanks.
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 2:43:45 PM
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| Thanks for sharing, Reid. Fine work. |
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basilking
Lokahi
124 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 9:04:14 PM
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| Reid, from what I read "between the lines" in your description of lap steel approach, you're doing there what I do on guitar. I've more difficulty being "intuitive" and "ear-driven" on my old Fender deluxe 8, so I spend more effort on steel thinkin' about intervals and chord structure. I anticipate that this will change over time and I'll just "hear" the steel as I do guitar. No matter how one approaches an instrument, your investigation and explanation are most helpful to us all. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 9:31:37 PM
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| My old 'puter doesn't do justice to the hard work for us to sample, but C Mauna Loa has given me loads of speculation as to the C6 tuning we all love and it's developement from ki ho'alu. Sol Ho'opi'i was using 6th tunings by the '30s, the Sons of the Pioneers described their vocal harmonies as "Hawaiian" because of the stacked 3rds. This implies that Mauna Loa tunings are at least 80 years old, if not older. I know that the oldest kika kila tuning was Taropatch, a slack key tuning. Too bad we no can wake up da uncle guys foa ask da question. |
Edited by - thumbstruck on 09/22/2007 9:33:01 PM |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 08:41:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
My old 'puter doesn't do justice to the hard work for us to sample, but C Mauna Loa has given me loads of speculation as to the C6 tuning we all love and it's developement from ki ho'alu. Sol Ho'opi'i was using 6th tunings by the '30s, the Sons of the Pioneers described their vocal harmonies as "Hawaiian" because of the stacked 3rds. This implies that Mauna Loa tunings are at least 80 years old, if not older. I know that the oldest kika kila tuning was Taropatch, a slack key tuning. Too bad we no can wake up da uncle guys foa ask da question.
My research into Western Swing led me to an interesting scenario. Because of the popularity of western movies in the 30's and 40's, the presence of Captitol Records, and because of the interest in things Hawaiian in the movies, Los Angeles was a hotbead of steel players. The C6 tuning arose in both genres about the same time. I have heard that there was a lot of cross fertilization between the 2 groups. For instance, the Sons of The Pioneers and Roy Rogers used Hawaiian steel players (I'll find out who when I get home) on their recordings. Sol Ho'opi'i was using a C# minor tuning (really E6) in the 30's more than the C6, which he used in the 40's, along with a gazillion other tunings. What I don't know, and would like to find out, is when the C tunings arose for slack key. |
keaka |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 09:31:15 AM
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When? Really hard to know about most guitar tunings, but we do know *roughly* about `ukulele, right?
I'll turn that question around. When was `ukulele NOT C6 (CGEA)? Which is both just the top 4 strings of "Standard", if Low G, capoed at the 5th fret and also the bottom 4 strings of lap steel C6 (CGEACE). FWIW, Wikipedia says:
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The ukulele is commonly associated with music from Hawaii, where the name roughly translates as "jumping flea", and was developed there in the 1880s as a combination of the Madeiran braguinha and rajão. A braguinha is an instrument similar to a cavaquinho, built in the city of Braga and named after it; the Portuguese cavaquinho is usually tuned in D-G-B-D, a G-major chord. The Madeira rajão is tuned D-G-C-E-A. The D and G strings are both re-entrant, i.e., tuned an octave higher than expected in the normal low-to-high course of strings. The GCEA strings of the rajão are the source of the re-entrant tuning of the modern ukulele[1]. -
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The reference is classical Wiki strangeness and leads to Kamaka's web site which does not exactly say that.
So, maybe some researcher (not me) can look into that further. Nonetheless, we know there was a C6 tuning of a sort in Hawai`i in about the 1880's.
About Atta's C: I don't know of any usage of it before Atta. As I mentioned in my piece, it is simply (?) a variant of Taro Patch tuned so that the low C Chord is open and the other 2 bass strings are as expected. Winston repeatedly calls it "his" (Atta's)tuning.
About C Mauna Loa: I would guess that tunings common on Ni`ihau would be pretty old and/or developed there (like Darwin's finches :-)since it had been isolated for a long time. The language is a kind of preserved variant. So, wild guess by maybe unwarranted analogy, the tunings were, too.
From George Winston:
Dennis Kamakahi, who says that C Mauna Loa Tuning is probably his favorite, recounts that slack key guitarist Malaki Kanahele from the island of Ni'ihau once told him that when he (Malaki) was a boy, people often played in that tuning "to lullaby the kids to sleep" and that it was called "Ki Melia" Tuning.
Peter or Russell probably have a much better idea than these musings. Maybe they will tell us.
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 09/24/2007 09:33:16 AM |
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Momi
Lokahi
402 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 10:11:59 AM
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| At the risk of wandering too far off topic, many Canadian players (James Hill included) learned the Chalmers Doane tuning, which is A, D, F#, B - same intervals, just a full step higher than what most Hawaiian players use. I've seen old (20's, 30's) sheet music of hapa haole or non-Hawaiian music with `ukulele chord charts atop the lyrics using that same tuning. |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 08:43:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Momi
At the risk of wandering too far off topic, many Canadian players (James Hill included) learned the Chalmers Doane tuning, which is A, D, F#, B - same intervals, just a full step higher than what most Hawaiian players use. I've seen old (20's, 30's) sheet music of hapa haole or non-Hawaiian music with `ukulele chord charts atop the lyrics using that same tuning.
Hey, Momi! I have some old May Singhi Breen books ("50 Favorite Tunes From Hawaii", eg) and a Ukulele Ike book, and they all have A D F# B as a the tuning. Hmmmm.... |
keaka |
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