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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
 Posted - 03/22/2012 : 1:59:18 PM
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I was jamming with Noeau and a few others and I realized that accompanying others should be finely nuanced. Listening is the prime thing. Subject matter of the song plays in, as does the vocal style. Which instruments are present, volume, room dynamics etc all play a part. Years ago, at a festival, a friend saw me play ki ho'alu with a group. They said that I didn't play much, (there were 3 ukulele, bass, steel, another guitar in standart tuning), but I said that my job was to give a slack key feel to the performance, so mostly I played back-up with just my right thumb on the lower strings. Sort of "salt on a pretzel" thing. Too often, we get too wound up and try to play too much. I think that comes from not jamming with others and learning to listen hard. Any thoughts or observations?
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TerryLiberty
Lokahi
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 4:15:08 PM
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| I come from a jazz background and listening/comping skills are highly valued but sometimes only in the other guy. The most common slur about a player is "plays a lot of notes". The goal, as Kory has stated is to help the group sound as good as it can. I also agree that the more we play with others, the more we begin to notice how we sound together, that is if we're listening. One thing I have noticed is that the few pieces of slack key tablature I've seen have no chord diagrams or notation so it's hard for us newbies to know what to comp. I gather that the ukulele publications have chords notated more often. |
Terry
Olympia, WA
Forever a haumana |
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sirduke58
`Olu`olu
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 4:15:59 PM
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Absolutely correct Kory "Salt on a pretzel" For accompanying others your job is to supplement & compliment. On most occasions more is less. You never want to drown out the lead instrument or vocals. You also never want to "clash" with others.
Oz told me for ki ho'alu players it's proper etiquette to accompany in a different position from where the lead or pa'ani is being played. For instance, if you are doing a pa'ani in the 1st position then I should accompany you by playing back up in the 2nd or 3rd position so as not to muddy up what you are doing. Simplified accompaniment so as not to draw attention from you too. Then vice versa. Shawn & Jonathan are experts in this technique. Shawn who plays mostly stand will find pockets to play in & doesn't cram in all the notes he can just because he can. Jon who is a slacker will capo up to another. Say I'm in C6th Maunaloa he'll go taropatch capoed at the 5th fret & we never run into each other.
Ozzie hint in Taropatch.....Grab the following D7 shape when appropriate & it never clashes
6-0
5-2
4-4
3-5
2-3
1-0
With 6-5 alternating bass line & strum |
Hoof Hearted?...Was it you Stu Pedaso? |
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2012 : 01:01:40 AM
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quote:
One thing I have noticed is that the few pieces of slack key tablature I've seen have no chord diagrams or notation so it's hard for us newbies to know what to comp.
I'll second that. For me it's very useful, first thing I do, looking into a new piece is write up the chord notations, or rather what I think the notations should be. For me it's a map of the landscape. I like maps. I like to know where I am. Is this a newbie thing? |
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neeej
`Olu`olu
USA
643 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2012 : 06:28:48 AM
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| We had the honor of having Charlie Recaido here at our last kani. He was playing bass...no facy runs or twiddles, just good solid bass. It sure added a lot...mahalo Charlie! |
--Jean S |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2012 : 07:49:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TerryLiberty
...One thing I have noticed is that the few pieces of slack key tablature I've seen have no chord diagrams or notation so it's hard for us newbies to know what to comp. I gather that the ukulele publications have chords notated more often.
If no chord is notated, just look to the thumb. In taropatch, 5-4 is the tonic, 6-4 is the dominant. The subdominant might be 5-4at2 or 5at5-4at5. Any barre is the note on 5.
Those ideas should help a lot in recognizing which chord is being played.
I make a point of associating the different steps of the harmonized scales with the chords they outline. At several points the chord is ambiguous, but in those cases the thumb determines the chord.
And finally, learn and use the chord shapes in your tuning. Just as in "standard" tuning the chords shapes are a powerful organizing concept.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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TerryLiberty
Lokahi
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2012 : 07:54:18 AM
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I once attended a brief workshop taught by Graham Dechter, the guitarist for the Clayton-Hamilton big band. One of the exercizes he had each of us do was to improvise a solo vocally (scat) while he and a bass did the rhythm chores. He then asked each of us to repeat the exercize with a goal of making the rhythm section sound good. His focus was on listening to the others in the group and fitting our notes to what was going on. It was really illuminating how everyone's improvised lines became simpler and more complementary to the overall sound. Listen, listen, listen. Something I need to remember more often.
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Terry
Olympia, WA
Forever a haumana |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2012 : 11:59:26 AM
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| At NWFolklife and few years ago, I observed the great New England contradance pianist, Bob McQuillan, giving pointers on backing up a fiddle tune. His left hand played the bass and his right hand was stationed in the middle of the keyboard. I asked him why that postition, and he told us the fiddle was up in the next octave and playing in the middle stayed out of the fiddle's way. So, stay out of the way of the lead player. When playing 2nd, esp if no ukulele present, I'll play chords up the neck while keeping my right thumb going. Fran's right about learning and using chord shapes. |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2012 : 4:15:53 PM
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| In the great trapeze act that is music, the lead is the flyer, and the accompianist is the catcher. It's all about support, suggesting by choosing voicings, giving the lead room to breathe, and LISTENING to what he/she is doing. |
keaka |
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 03:46:34 AM
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quote:
If no chord is notated, just look to the thumb. In taropatch, 5-4 is the tonic, 6-4 is the dominant. The subdominant might be 5-4at2 or 5at5-4at5. Any barre is the note on 5.
Fran, you have a way of explaining things, - spot on and simple, also because I have been browsing older threads a lot.
Like this one, it was written on the wall I guess, but that does not always make it easy for a newbie to see.
Thanks a lot Fran. |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2012 : 05:59:32 AM
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also, besides playing in another "voicing" to avoid stepping on the vocal and key player's range...I had to learn, as a violin/fiddler, to not play busy melodic lines during the vocal...Instead, do answers, in the spaces between the vocal's spaces, call and response style, but also work out with other player's who gets to do this during certain verses...less is more.
And, I'm still learning to TURN DOWN THE EGO--which is easier when I don't sip too much Pineapple Schnapps! |
Edited by - Kapila Kane on 03/29/2012 06:00:38 AM |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2012 : 12:39:09 AM
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“listening/comping skills are highly valued but sometimes only in the other guy.”
This is absolutely hilarious, because it is of course true!
It’s important to remember that in most musical contexts involving performance, you’ll be doing comping/accompaniment/backing 90% of the time. It’s a huge part of what being a musician is about.
I’m usually the ‘other guy’ in bands duos and so on.
I’m currently playing for 4 singer/songwriters and a fiddle player. I’m certainly not the best guitarist in town – I can only put it down to the fact that 1) I don’t crash the vocals 2) I don’t steal the limelight, 3) I show up on time and 4) I can usually borrow a car. I can play a little in various different styles, which give the impression of ‘versatility’, which I think also helps.
If you can sound good, that’s terrific. But if you can make other people sound good, well there’s great satisfaction and pleasure to be had in that. It’s not something you can learn in five minutes, or learn from a book, but it’s a joy for life.
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2012 : 07:46:01 AM
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| Alan Akaka's mantra to me for comping: "Play in da pukas". So true. |
keaka |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2012 : 10:05:56 AM
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| Trev, making the other person sound better is the goal. Sometimes how backup is played can cause the lead singer/player to "stretch" and be even better. Like Slipry1 told me, the backup guys let the lead "float". |
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PearlCityBoy
Lokahi
USA
432 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2012 : 10:13:01 PM
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Here's Earl Scruggs (R.I.P.) with his friends and family passing around the pa'anis and backing up each other: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icMTVV5Lwaw&feature=related . Can you guess which one of them will be featured in Bruddah Mitch's upcoming Los Angeles Guitar Festival?
They probably didn't even rehearse. I think most of da pukas were filled . . . only thing missing was the cowbell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZOHY7Z5eaQ .
Aloha,
Doug |
Edited by - PearlCityBoy on 03/30/2012 10:48:12 PM |
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Ideas for "comping"
