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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
 Posted - 01/06/2010 : 10:51:04 AM
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Rant Mode ON:
Just to throw some more hot oil on the fire, I propose that sharps and flats are not needed but are just an artifact of improperly and ungainly constructed notation system. In the really old days there were mostly only 5 tones per Octave used, but Music notation was not developed or standardized yet. But lo and behold after a few years (and a few years more) lots of Europeans decided that 8 tones sounded pretty good and also started developing what is now called standard notation for western music. But to get these various 8 tone systems to work together they decided to invent sharps and flats as a convenience for the poor composers who were forced to write the stuff out by hand (even if they were deaf at the time). This was just as bad (if not worse) an idea as the Qwerty keyboard! If a couple of more lines are added to the staff then there would be plenty of space for all twelve notes without the need for sharps and flats and key signature and "normals" and de-normals and passing tones and passing gas, etc, etc. And don't give me that line about 7 lines in a staff would "look too confusing", the five lines are already confusing to a beginner and little lines are still needed above and below for those wayward melodies! The notes should be designated A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,L. Forget all them danged Sharps (except for the Rifle) and them danged Flats (Except for Lester). A Music score can then look sane, instead of insanely arcane, with the vertical distance between notes being directly proportional to the frequency interval between them.
Standard Notation is just an arbitrary backwards-designed system that should be tossed out with the bathwater!!
I propose that all pianos have all white keys except for the "C-notes" which can colored green for those who remember the bad old daze (back when hundred dollar bills meant real money).
Rant Mode OFF:
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 01/06/2010 10:53:36 AM |
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hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 11:09:24 AM
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Whatever the people's key is, the bougeoisie's would be the relative minor of that key. Seriously!!!
This is a great thread. Kapila has a point about the piano being a great visual tool to decipher scales in all keys. But you don't need a piano. You can draw a simple sketch of the piano (about 2 octaves)and use that to figure out distances between intervals.
Also, use number patterns and account for all 12 notes.
1-3-5-6-8-10-12-13 represents do re me fa sol la ti do and is the pattern for the c major scale CDEFGABC. Move up the pattern by a half step and you have the C# major scale. Keep moving the pattern up and you will visit all 12 keys until you get to the octave C Major scale.
Identify the modes for each key and you got it made.
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Stay Tuned... |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 11:30:27 AM
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| I think I need to listen to some more Harry Partch... |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 2:18:03 PM
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OK OK OK
So maybe I wasn't clear . .
'jus what Professor Medeiros told me -- some people learn differently than others
-- this, by the way was repeated to me by my English Teacher wife a few days later
What makes perfect sense to me (since I learned music on the violin first as a wee keiki and then on the piano before taking up guitar and ukulele) when looking at the piano keyboard -- is not intuitively obvious to all casual observers (aka slack key students).
While I can refer back to a visualization of the piano keyboard and "see" that there is no black key between B-and-C and also between E-and-F and thus infer all those infernal rules (like Cb and B# are the not same notes -- but B and C respectively). Those that have never attempted to play the piano -- much less lifted the keyboard cover to look, may find the keyboard illustration difficult. (right slkho ?)
When you learn music theory on a fretted instrument like the guitar or ukulele first, all you see are strings, frets, and dots (except on some classical guitars). Trying to visualize a non-familiar keyboard can just add noise to the learning process and make the waters so much muddier. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 7:13:54 PM
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"Can you read notes?" "Hell, there are no notes to a banjo, you just play it."....nameless Old Time Banjo player
"The land of the brave
The home of the free,
I don't want to be mistreated
By no bourgeosie." ...Leadbelly.
"Can you read music?" "Not enough to hurt my playing." ....Another nameless Old Time banjo player
"It's all folk music. I ain't never heard no horse sing." ....Louis Armstrong
"The strongest dissonance is to be one half-step off. If the note you played doesn't fit, you're never more than one half-step from a better choice." ....Jamie Aebersold, Jazz instructor
"If it sounds good to you,it probably is good."....Doc Watson
"Jus' Press."...Led Ka`apana
"Tell your Ma, tell your Pa, our loves a-gonna grow, oooh waaa,oooh waaa."...Bob Dylan
"If only the best birds sang, the forrest would be a quiet place." unknown
Unknown was buried next to Arch Fisher.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 7:21:16 PM
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Taking what I know of chords,from playing guitar, and scales and modes,learned from the mountain dulcimer, I can pick out songs and simple accompanyment on Wanda's piano. No one will ever mistake me for a pianist. But having a piano available is a prerequisit to learning anything from it. If a piano is available, use it to your advantage. I never threw my screwdriver away when I bought pliers.If a piano ain't available, they cost way too much just for the lesson capability. Buy a good music theory book instead.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2010 : 01:59:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Retro
I think I need to listen to some more Harry Partch...
I used to attend his concerts at UCLA back in the 60's and the 70's up to the time he passed. I LOVE "Barstow" and "Daphne of the Dunes". |
keaka |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2010 : 08:08:46 AM
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I used to attend his concerts at UCLA back in the 60's and the 70's up to the time he passed. I LOVE "Barstow" and "Daphne of the Dunes".
Yes- my kind of musical thinker, who made many Marimba-ish instruments, which reminds me, last time I looked at a Marimba (one of my favorite instruments) there weren't any white or black keys (bars). 
P.S. - I worked in the UCLA School of Music in the 70's, but I never met him so far as I can recall. But understand this... I was really there in the seventies, which is why I don't remember them! 
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 01/07/2010 11:13:06 AM |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2010 : 08:55:01 AM
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The friend who guided me through swing and the Great American Songbook is a self-taught rock player. I remember when he got access to a keyboard, he said, "It's so easy on the piano--it's all right there!" By "all" he meant things like chord construction, since the stacking-of-thirds, inversions, and flatting and sharping and adding of notes is laid out in a linear fashion. He knew the fingerboard well enough to translate the keyboard relationships to the guitar and construct any chord he didn't already know--and he could also find substitutions easily. The keyboard was a kind of audio-visual aid.
I'm not sure that it's quite as powerful for a natively guitaristic folk tradition like slack-key, where it's more important to know where the bass notes and sixths are--it's a more "grippy" tradition. (Which is also the way I finally absorbed a lot of swing--it's all about the grips. But that also puts a ceiling on what I can achieve. Chord theory really does help there.)
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 01/07/2010 08:56:07 AM |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2010 : 11:02:59 AM
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I've had my students take their guitars and sight down the neck from the body. I've told'em to picture the open string as "C", even thought in tight key, it's E and superimpose a piano keyboard with the black notes and white notes for a chromatic scale and then a diatonic one. I gues I was hoping that they would see a commonality between the instruments.
The ADVANTAGE of the accordion over the piano: The piano has no places for shoulder straps, the box does. The kordeen is easier to pack around and it can drown out a carelessly played fiddle.
A Scandihoovian's dilema over the first paycheck in the new country: Vhat do ve buy first, shoes or a kordeen? Ya, but you can't dance vitout no shoes, but even harder to dance vitout no kordeen. |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2010 : 3:45:18 PM
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Buy the Kordeen, dance barefoot if necessary. The soul gotta eat, too. Be kind to the fiddlers, they never get to dance.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2010 : 9:10:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rendesvous1840
Be kind to the fiddlers, they never get to dance.
Don't tell that to my Cape Breton friends - they can dance up a storm while playing! |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2010 : 6:21:40 PM
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Dancing with a fiddle, and dancing with a partner, is 2 different dancings, I'm thinkin'.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2010 : 6:24:39 PM
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Not that I would know, I couldn't dance a lick when I had good knees. One of our girls roped me into subbing for her recalcitrant boyfriend at Ballroom Dance class some years back. It's a wonder she survived my attempts. I was glad when it was over. The above is just an old saying in Appalachian Music Circles.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2010 : 8:02:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rendesvous1840
Dancing with a fiddle, and dancing with a partner, is 2 different dancings, I'm thinkin'.
I do believe you're right - though I've known some dancing partners who were stringing me along, and had no interest in fiddlin' around. ("Bow" to your partner...) |
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Theory idea...PIANO for guitar, uke and strummies.
