| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2010 : 05:25:15 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by markwitz
I stick with my former statements that speaks to the fact that I doubt that most of the thousands that you refer to, took the time to listen to the 32 eligible submissions with the same love and concern that you have for Hawaiian Music. I'm sure that you are intimate enough with Hawaiian Music to be able to cast a meaningful vote. I just kinda doubt that the vast majority of the rest that voted are. So it just saddens me to see how poorly served Hawaiian Music is by the whole process.
Ah, clarity - thanks.
I suspect you are absolutely right, Norman. As much as I would love to dream that everyone who votes in a category is fluent in what they are voting on, I am certain that is not the case.
Part of it has to do with the "fields" in which categories are connected. For example, one of the fields where I always vote is "Jazz" - because that's another musical genre where I am involved (in fact, I'm in the Academy because I produced some jazz albums a while back). In addition to the categories such as Instrumental Solo, Contemporary Jazz Album, etc., it also includes Latin Jazz Album. That's an area where I am usually weaker, so I just don't vote there. But I'm sure others still do.
So anyone who wants to vote in the "American Roots" field, so they can vote on (for example) Traditional Folk Album, Bluegrass Album or Native American Album, will also have the opportunity to vote on Hawaiian Album. (And the reverse is true - so I usually don't vote on Native American Album, unless I have been able to listen to a majority of the eligible discs.)
As you and others have noted, the Grammys are big publicity, and always good for a boost in sales. But I doubt there are many people who, having decided to pursue a spark of interest in Hawaiian music, will start with "gee, let's see what albums were nominated for a Grammy each year."
But more likely, their interest will have begun with:
(a) "I love that 'Rainbow' song sung by that really big guy!" or
(b) "I love vacationing in Hawai`i, and I want to find some of that music I heard there."
That's where the TaroPatch Army can head into action, and guide those folks down a happy aural path! |
 |
|
|
Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 07:34:08 AM
|
quote:
Here is my list of 5.
9. Amy Hanaiali‘i and Slack Key Masters of Hawaii, Amy Hanaiali‘i and Slack Key Masters of Hawaii
14. Ledward Kaapana, The Legend
17. Rev. Dennis Kamakahi, Greatest Hits Vol. 1
22. Lorna Lim, Polinahe
25. Na Palapalai, Nanea
So 2 of your choices actually made it onto the nominee list!
I dunno'bout you, but when I go into the voting booth in November I cosider myself very lucky if two fifths of the candidates or ballot measures that I vote for actually win. 
I doubt that very many of the voters listened to even a fraction of the preliminary submissions. Few would want to invest $15 times 32 or about 500 bucks to buy every submission AND the submitters are not sending out free copies to academy voters like they used to. (NARAS does not give lists of members (even by category) to submitters and no artist can afford to send discs out to ALL NARAS members, even if they could get a general list). Not to mention the time to listen to any remaining (not already heard) of the 32 in the short interval between receiving the preliminary ballot and having to mail it. There are some online "sampling" sites but I suspect many members do not like to listen online (yet). Having a good targeted mailing list of likely voters is a very strong advantage in the Grammy process, and I suspect some submitters might have much better lists than others. For the Na Hokus, HARA has a somewhat organized? method of sending candidate recording or samplers out to the voters, so this same degree of mailing list advantage does not exist.
So I suspect it boils down to voting for those you have already heard (and liked), and voting for artists you are familiar with, even if you have not heard the specific release.
If you are a radio station DJ, you are in the very lucky position of getting to hear many more submissions than the average NARAS voter because most Radio stations get free copies of nearly everything.
|
Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 12/03/2010 07:46:33 AM |
|
|
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 07:46:55 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence
I doubt that very many of the voters listened to even a fraction of the preliminary submissions. Few would want to invest $15 times 32 or about 500 bucks to buy every submission AND the submitters are not sending out free copies to academy voters like they used to. (NARAS does not give lists of members (even by category) to submitters and no artist can afford to send discs out to ALL NARAS members, even if they could get a general list). Not to mention the time to listen to any remaining (not already heard) of the 32 in the short interval between receiving the preliminary ballot and having to mail it. There are some online "sampling" sites but I suspect many members do not like to listen online (yet). Having a good targeted mailing list of likely voters is a very strong advantage in the Grammy process, and I suspect some submitters might have much better lists than others. For the Na Hokus, HARA has a somewhat organized? method of sending candidate recording or samplers out to the voters, so this same degree of mailing list advantage does not exist.
For NARAS members, we generally have access to "sampling" sites for the music, provided through NARAS, the artists, or record companies - but Lawrence is right in that some of us (myself included) still aren't in the online listening habit (picture me kicking and screaming my way into the second decade of the 21st Century...)
Artists used to send out discs to HARA members for Hoku consideration, but that seems to have pretty much dried up in the past couple of years, and they don't have coordinated online listening sites set up. Yet. Considering the folks working behind the scenes at HARA these days, I wouldn't be surprised to see something before long - there's a group of folks on-board there now who are very tech-savvy and are revitalizing HARA. |
|
|
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 07:50:52 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence
If you are a radio station DJ, you are in the very lucky position of getting to hear many more submissions than the average NARAS voter because most Radio stations get free copies of nearly everything.
Even that has been drying up in the past couple years; more and more, record companies are offering authorized download sites for DJs instead, which eats at me. I like having the physical disc in hand when I do a show or write a review, and having to download from a site, burn my own disc for airplay, and print up my own "electronic press kit" in order to get the detailed info I need really annoys me; I have to cover some of the release's expenses myself, in order to give them promotion?!? |
|
|
|
Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 09:32:48 AM
|
quote:
So it just saddens me to see how poorly served Hawaiian Music is by the whole process.
If you were to remove the word "Hawaiian" from that statement, you would have my feelings exactly.
With all due respect to Retro, et al, I made the decision years ago not to be involved in any of this. I would qualify to be in on the Grammy judging, as well as the Hokus... and probably a few others. But I opt out.
I certainly recognize the immense commercial boost one gets from winning.
But good for the music? Hardly.
Is "Dancing with the Stars" good for dance? Not the popularity thereof, I mean the actual art. Visualize Bristol en pointe... no, don't.
Is "American Idol" good for.... anything????
Personally, the Grammies don't mean s**t to a tree. Quoting the Airplane, BTW. Did they ever win a Grammy??? Do I care?
So rant away. I agree with Chunk, it makes for amusing reading.
At least someone in Hawaii gets to make a few more bucks out of playing music.
And that is not a bad thing, is it? |
|
|
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 11:35:33 AM
|
Mark probably has the healthiest attitude yet. To most folks here, why should it even matter?
Patch-posters are possibly the largest online collection of people who are knowledgeable about Hawaiian music, more so than most music fans. Because we know so much, and because we care so much, we get worked up about it when we think something's inaccurate.
"Is THAT really slack key?"
"They gave an award to WHO??"
"Joni Mitchell says she invented WHAT???"
We are best at moving forward the art of Hawaiian music when we praise and share the stuff we, as individual listeners and players, love. We are far less effective when we waste our energies on tearing down what we, as individual listeners and players, dislike. |
|
|
|
markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 1:04:29 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence
[quote]So 2 of your choices actually made it onto the nominee list!
Lawrence I never said that I was in total disagreement with the entire list of nominees. It's the DISPARITY of what is on that list that disappointed me. Like the old Sesame Street segment "One of These Things Is Not Like The Other". Actually I was very close to including "Maui On My Mind", because it is a beautiful album, so you could say that I wouldn't have a had a problem with 3 out of 5. But to include the other two along with the rest was just too obviously bad in my mind. I'm just sorry. I have liked some of Daniel's and Tia's work in the past. I just didn't think either one of their new albums had any spark to them among other criticisms. So I could only surmise from my viewpoint that the names Daniel Ho and Tia Carrere because of their past success in the Grammy world, meant more to the voters that the actual music. Much to the sorrow of others more worthy on the list of nominees, and in my mind better representatives of Hawaiian Music to the world. |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
|
|
|
catheglass
Lokahi
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2010 : 8:48:15 PM
|
E Markwitz, I'm with you. Like, when is Herb Ohta Jr gonna win a Grammy? Talk about deserving!!!
And of course there are others on the list who are, too. |
cathe |
|
|
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 11:45:40 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by catheglass
Like, when is Herb Ohta Jr gonna win a Grammy? Talk about deserving!!!
For that matter, a Hōkū? |
Edited by - Retro on 12/12/2010 08:15:12 AM |
|
|
|
donkaulia
Lokahi
249 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 09:08:42 AM
|
In 2011, my pick is THE LEGEND, Ledward Kaapana.
The others are great but on the performance level as a soloist, Led outpaces the rest, the Best of Hawaiian Music period.
Politically, we need to have our own chapter physically here in the islands where it belongs and voted by the majority in this region.
We are working on this and will need at least 300 members to have a Chapter in the islands and not in North America. Not an easy task but it will happen.
Happy Holidays to All! |
donkaulia |
|
|
|
markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 10:04:48 AM
|
| Led would be a fine choice. I hope the remedy to the situation is not far off. |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
|
|
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 11:27:57 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by donkaulia
Politically, we need to have our own chapter physically here in the islands where it belongs and voted by the majority in this region.
We are working on this and will need at least 300 members to have a Chapter in the islands and not in North America. Not an easy task but it will happen.
Frankly, even though I am a member of the Pacific NW Chapter that presently includes Hawai`i, I would be truly impressed to see Hawai`i develop its own distinct chapter. That would represent the strength of the Hawaiian music business in a new way.
But (a) if there are 300 people who would qualify as NARAS members at present, why aren't they members now and making their influence known in an area that has been controversial for several years already, and (b) how would Hawai`i having its own chapter actually make any difference in the eligibility, selection, nomination and voting process for the Grammy Awards? |
|
|
|
kuulei88
Akahai
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 06:41:04 AM
|
Mahalo Don & Retro for thoughtful comments.
A quick clarification on Greggʻs provocative question: how would Hawai`i having its own chapter actually make any difference in the eligibility, selection, nomination and voting process for the Grammy Awards?
The SELECTION process is actually nothing more than a committee of folks who VERIFY ELIGIBILITY of a submission. The ONLY task of the Selection Committees convened by the NARAS office is to verify that a submitted product meets the eligibility requirements. NO elimination is done at this point on quality. ALL submissions that meet eligibility requirements go onto the preliminary ballot that goes out to all NARAS members.
I know folks who have been asked to serve on selection committees in other areas. They do not apply any criteria other than confirming the existing written eligibility rules. |
amy k |
|
|
|
donkaulia
Lokahi
249 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2010 : 11:51:01 AM
|
| Thanks Amy. Good point Mr. Porter. Having a Chapter located here in the Hawaiian Islands would be the goal to gain HARA members and not restrict members who live outside of the Hawaiian Islands. We even have our Polynesian cousins in the South Pacific that needs representation in lieu of the 'World Music' category. It's just a matter of time for all of this happen. Perhaps a Hawaii Chapter would represent the Pacific Islands? As the world turns we'll see what happens. Imagine if China gets involved.....???? |
donkaulia |
|
|
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2010 : 12:47:12 PM
|
Not only that, Don, but a local chapter can do so much more than just be a resource for Grammy education - they are heavily involved in providing workshop opportunities for Academy members, bringing in renowned international experts for presentations on every aspect of the music and recording business, providing networking events, working with students in schools and colleges, and generally celebrating the successes of their region's musicians and music-business professionals.
I've been very happy to see that HARA has made some major steps forward in all of these areas as well - homegrown talent celebrating what they can share with the world. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Hawaiian Grammy nominees announced
