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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 12/08/2010 : 02:40:50 AM
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You know our dear Amy Ku`uleialoha Stillman is teaching at UH-Manoa this academic year as a visiting professor.
The following is from her haumana:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/44892694/2-What-is-Hawaiian-Music-Tyler-Et-Al#source:facebook
You may find of particular interest is that various Taro Patch posts have been used as reference material and apropriate attribution and citations have been used.
Boy do I wish my college classes were like this. Lucky students. Lucky kumu.
After y'alls read it dare I ask if we can have more good discussion or do you think we have beat the horse until he is not only make but make nui loa.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2010 : 08:49:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
http://www.scribd.com/doc/44892694/2-What-is-Hawaiian-Music-Tyler-Et-Al#source:facebook
Interesting simplification of the discussion, but I hope points were deducted for spellings like:
`ukuelele and Hawai'ian
and statements like:
Electrification was invented in Texas in 1935 and (referencing bloodlines) some believe you must be of 100% decent.
Don't many of us dream of being "100% decent?" |
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kuulei88
Akahai
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2010 : 09:14:44 AM
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http://www.scribd.com/document_collections/2753628
What is uploaded are the final presentations of students in my First Year Seminar in Winter 2010 (Jan - April 2010) at University of Michigan.
This is not the work of my UH students in this current academic year.
The work was not tailored to the Taropatch audience. Rather, the work fulfilled a college assignment that required data gathering, analysis, and synthesis.
The presentations appear as they were submitted. They were not edited for either content or spelling.
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amy k |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2010 : 11:25:26 AM
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One of the items discussed was about mele.com being a force integral to presenting music to the buying public. The student sent an e-mail to Puna, currently of mele.com asking if there was criteria for what was made available on mele.com. Puna's answer was pretty much that anything to the interest of Hawaiians including music produced on the mainland in Hawaiian language or other music from the South Pacific. Contemporary music in English by Hawai`i based groups is also made available by mele.com.
I would like to ask if this is the same broad coverage that was mele.com's policy when Auntie Maria owned the business? I am not sure but for some reason I seem to think that the criteria were different at that time and perhaps if that is true, those criteria may have somehow affected what people believe to be true Hawaiian music.
Auntie Maria - I am not trying to put you on the spot, but could you please chime in here and let me know if I am way off base on this one. I truly believe that since mele.com is the source for many of us who do not live on the west coast and cannot buy music at live shows, what we see on mele.com is what we truly believe to be "Hawaiian". I mean if I got to mele.com and it is listed in the "Hawaiian" category, well, then, it must be "Hawaiian", right? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2010 : 1:28:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
I mean if I got to mele.com and it is listed in the "Hawaiian" category, well, then, it must be "Hawaiian", right?
I think it's safe to say that what Fred Krauss defines as "Hawaiian music" for a business that sells "Hawaiian music" is probably a definition that is applicable for that particular business only, and should not necessarily be extrapolated to use for any other purpose.
At the core, isn't it the commercially-viable aspect of "Hawaiian music" that has so many people upset about the Grammy Award nominees?
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(And I hope everyone understood that I was being intentionally pedantic in my comments about the student work posted online; personally, I'm pleased that ANY students, in Michigan, Hawai`i or elsewhere, are doing research into Hawaiian music. Amy's students are fortunate to have her as a resource.) |
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dragonfly213
Akahai
66 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2010 : 3:15:36 PM
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| I for one really appreciate the clear and direct way these students presented their information... not easy to do. You must be a wonderful teacher there. But I'm very glad I am not in grad school anymore hee hee though I'd be in your department in a heartbeat if I could... Mahalo so much, Prof Stillman, for sharing. |
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Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2010 : 4:49:57 PM
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To answer your question, Wanda, mele.com has always carried what I called "music of Polynesia"...whether recorded on the USA mainland or Hawai`i or Canada or Europe or elsewhere. At one time, I had an extensive inventory of music from French Polynesia, Samoa, etc. Unfortunately, it was exceedingly difficult for me to procure them from the offshore labels, which is why the majority of those titles are no longer available at the site.
As for "Hawaiian music" titles at the site, from the very beginning I used the guidelines which had already been established by the Hawai`i Academy of Recording Arts -- that the majority of the tracks on a CD must be in the Hawaiian language, to be listed as a Hawaiian CD. Click the MUSIC button at the top of the mele.com front page, and then click HAWAIIAN MUSIC from that drop-down menu to see the CDs which meet those guidelines.
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Auntie Maria
===================
My "Aloha Kaua`i" radio show streams FREE online every Thu & Fri 7-9am (HST)
www.kkcr.org - Kaua`i Community Radio
"Like" Aloha Kauai on Facebook, for playlists and news/info about island music and musicians!
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2010 : 8:57:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Retro
[quote]Originally posted by wcerto
http://www.scribd.com/doc/44892694/2-What-is-Hawaiian-Music-Tyler-
and statements like:
Electrification was invented in Texas in 1935
To elucidate further, Adolph Richenbacher was in California, Paul Tutmark was in Seattle, and Les Paul was in Wisconsin. The electric guitar arose independently in the early '30's. It was played in Western Swing in the mid-'30's, but electric guitar was also played by Hawaiians, most notably Sol Ho'opi'i. |
keaka |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2010 : 03:26:45 AM
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| Can Hawaiian music truly be defined by objective criteria or is it an emotional definition? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2010 : 04:54:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Can Hawaiian music truly be defined by objective criteria or is it an emotional definition?
Gee Wanda, that's a very good point. I never looked at it that way, but I think you really hit upon something here. |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2010 : 07:58:10 AM
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To be useful, definitions need to be rooted in something less subjective than feelings. On the other hand, people inside a culture or other affinity group might well base their definitions of what belongs to them on emotion, and that needs to be taken into account somehow. Musicologists, anthropologists, and other such folk have to negotiate these matters when they craft definitions--similar issues are faced by anyone trying to make sense of any artistic matter, for example, "what is poetry?" or "what is a good novel?"
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2010 : 08:24:46 AM
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| That is what many people (including me) say about some music. "It doesn't FEEL Hawaiian." But I cannot easily define what that FEEL is or isn't. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2010 : 08:58:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Can Hawaiian music truly be defined by objective criteria or is it an emotional definition?
To paraphrase a Supreme Court justice: "I can't tell you what it is, but I know it when I hear it."
Viewpoints on creative arts are, by their nature, subjective. Objective definitions are forced on them when you have to describe them to others - for a review, to sell the product, to decide on where or how to shelve or file or grant awards to something artistic. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2010 : 10:00:39 AM
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Here is a fer instance. Keali`i Reichel is a very well respected kumu hula, an amazingly talented musician and haku mele, one who malamas and embraces his Hawaiian culture. He has won Na Hoku awards and has performed at huge sell out shows.
I do not question his "Hawaiian-ness"
but for some reason to me this song does not sound "Hawaiian" -- that feeling that I do not know how to descdribe, yet it obviously must be Hawaiian based on language, and based on who is presenting the mele.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti5Dwu2uIK0
I think for some reason I expect Hawaiian music to have a II-V-I vamp or something like that. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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kuulei88
Akahai
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2010 : 10:24:57 AM
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Iʻm going to put forth a position that will surprise many of you.
It is NOT the function of scholars, academic, "experts," etc. to craft definitive definitions.
"Authoritative sources" are useful when you are trying to advance a particular perspective and you can use the authority of someone "expert" to help strengthen your case.
But people, I truly believe--and practice--that the function of a scholar / academic is NOT to tell people what they should be thinking or believing or subscribing to. Rather, the function of a scholar is to GUIDE people toward finding evidence, assessing evidence, weighing evidence, and coming to YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS.
Take something like Websterʻs Dictionary--that is a source that many many people believe is authoritative, because it is widely known what kind of work goes into producing that volume, by a community of people particularly skilled in assessing possibilities and making decisions based on those assessments.
Now, on the other hand, take a book like George Kanaheleʻs Hawaiian Music and Musicias: An Illustrated History. First of all, everybody needs to understand that George Kanahele DID NOT WRITE that book. He edited the book. He coordinated the work of many people who actually wrote the entries. Is this an authoritative book? Every effort was made by George Kanahele to have entries whose information could be VERIFIED according to what was known about Hawaiian music in the 1970s, when the bookʻs entries were being written.
We live in a society where "expertise" has been handed over to "experts." This is so problematic in so many ways. First of all, how does someone become an "expert"? Secondly, what licenses "experts" to then lord it over everyone else that their position is the only correct one? You know, "my way or the highway."
True, there is no shortage of scholars, academics, and other kinds of "experts" that are happy to provide definitions. BUT -- no definition should ever be accepted blindly. Anyone who looks to a definition has the kuleana to question any definition-- what is the evidence for this definition? what is the evidence that argues against this definition? And then, in a culture of truly humanistic discourse, every person should be empowered to make their own decision. The key to the decision is the basis on which it is grounded.
When people ask "what is Hawaiian music?", my whole point is that THERE IS NO SINGLE ANSWER. There can be NO single answer. Because the communities are so diverse, it is inevitable that eventually definitions will start to contradict each other.
Any scholar or academic or "expert" who has any speck of integrity is someone who will refrain from asserting one position, and rather stand back and assess the RANGE of positions in order to understand WHY there are differences, and WHY those differences matter the way that they do.
Be wary of any "expert" that gives you any definitive definitions. That is not an expert; that is a dictator. That is an advocate for their own interests, and their own positions.
Scholarship at its best EMPOWERS people with the TOOLS and SKILLS to be able to make up their own minds for themselves. Scholarship is NOT, and should NEVER BE, about telling people what to think.
Amy K. Stillman, Ph.D.
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