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fred d
Akahai
USA
60 Posts |
 Posted - 01/05/2011 : 12:58:02 PM
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Aloha learning slack key as well as trying to learn lap slide ( they are tuned the same) slack key has helped learn notes and lap the chords and I sometimes take both to jams this music both and excites me the lap helps due to the sitting position and my health problems Has anyone else used this combantions also is it best when playing back up to play notes or chords thanks for any help fred
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fred davis |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 3:27:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by fred d
Aloha learning slack key as well as trying to learn lap slide ( they are tuned the same) slack key has helped learn notes and lap the chords and I sometimes take both to jams this music both and excites me the lap helps due to the sitting position and my health problems Has anyone else used this combantions also is it best when playing back up to play notes or chords thanks for any help fred
Taropatch is the oldest steel tuning, but it went out of style in the '30s, with the rise of 6th tunings (aka as minor 7 tunings, e.g., Sol Ho'opi'i's C# minor tuing is really an E6). Steelers quit playing solo, and there are real advantages to the tuning(s) in getting around on a tune, and sspngs changed to reflect what steelers were doing. I play a little slack key, and Cyril Pahinui and Dennis Kamakahi showed me C slack key tunings, which bear more than a passing influence to the C6 steel tuning. Music, like almost everything ele, evolves with time, ya know. |
keaka |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2011 : 09:28:08 AM
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quote:
is it best when playing back up to play notes or chords
Wassamatter, Fred, doesn't yer keyboard have any punctuation? 
OK, seriously-- Slip's right, Taropatch was the original steel tuning--though it's tuned up to A and called Low A tuning in many of the older books.
Konabob on Maui, who will chime in here as soon as he notices your post, plays acoustic steel in Taropatch, as well a a G6th variation.
Now in answer to your question: chords or notes when playing back up?
The short answer is: Whatever you choose, just stay out of the way.
Steel is not a rhythm instrument, so chords are used sparingly, more as punctuation.
Since the range is the same as many voices playing note-y fills can step all over the singer.
So, essentially, lay out until nothing else is happening, and then play something brief and to the point.
Unless you are a fan of the doo-hicky-doo 20s-style players like a certain Bob B, in which case just go crazy and devil take the hindmost... 
Good luck! |
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guitar yogi
Akahai
Kiribati
67 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2011 : 6:07:50 PM
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| Hey folks, I'm new here but I find this thread to be very interesting for a number of reasons...First of all, I'm a big fan of Bob Brozman. I've been playing blues guitar for over 20 years, slack key on my Takamine 12-string for 3 months, and like Fred, I want to get into lap steel next. But I'll need to get a new guitar. I really like the classic Weissenborn tone that Bob gets. Anyone on here have experience with the Goldtone Weissenborn? Goldtone Hawaiian-neck dobros? Gibson dobros? National Resophonic steel guitars? (My newbie advice for Fred is to check out the stuff Bob Brozman does with Led Kaapana and Cyril Pahinui- amazing guitar by true masters!!)Aloha, Matthew in Orygun |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2011 : 9:09:13 PM
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Matthew,
Where is Konabob when you need him??? Not only does he play steel in taropatch, he owns a Goldtone (I think).
YOu don't really "need" a new guitar, you just "want" one. But, hey, what's the diff? Of all the ones you mentioned, only the Nationals are made in the states. There are some custom Weissenborn makers around, pretty pricey though. If you want the real steel sound you must get a solid body version and a good pickup. Hollow bodies are very mellow and earthy, solids very clean and bright and loud.
You can use any guitar for slide (check out Kelly Joe Phelps' set-up; an old Gibson flat-top with a nut extender on it). Cheap nut extenders can be found at most guitar shops, but if you wish to designate a certain guitar to lap slide or dobro style playing, have a new nut made for your old guitar, have them raise the saddle, put on the heaviest strings your axe will handle (0.16 to 0.60 is good), crank 'em up and away you go. Oh, yeah; get a good bar. There is lots of discussion about bullet, round nose, flat, Stevens, Schmevens, etc.. FInd one you like, the heavier the better, and start playing.
If you are handy at all, make one for yourself. I've made two Weissenborns, Konabob has made several hollow and solid body versions. Much easier to make a Weissenborn than a guitar; it is, after all, simply a box with strings attached. Solid bodies are even easier; just a slab of wood with strings attached.
Good luck and have fun learning slide |
Karl
Frozen North |
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 07:49:11 AM
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quote:
(My newbie advice for Fred is to check out the stuff Bob Brozman does with Led Kaapana and Cyril Pahinui- amazing guitar by true masters!!)Aloha, Matthew in Orygun
Also worth mentioning is the newer release of Bob Brozman and George Kahumoku: Kani Wai , which was nominated last year for two Na Hoku Hanohano awards. On this disc (and partly because of the influence of George) Bob shows that he can actually slow down and get those nice smooth almost pedal steel type sounds when he wants to, but there is plenty of energetic stuff on there as well.
P.S: When Bob is playing he will often pick up the instrument, park the steel and play in regular fingerstyle form with alternating bass and the usual Hawaiian riffs. Then he will put in back on his lap and resume with the steel.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 01/07/2011 08:00:43 AM |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 09:57:50 AM
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WRT Bob Brozman, who I admire for his ability, KonaBob (also a GOOD steeler), Ken Emerson and others, the style they play, IMHO, is equivalent to old time string band music in country music. Bob plays a 1930 era National Tri Cone resinator guitar. You can get one for around $3000.  . If you want to play that style, I recommend Bob's Hawaiian steel instruction DVD. It's very good. Also, Stacy Phillips has Dobro books out with Hawaiian songs in Dobro standard (High G - G B D G B D, from the bottom) tuning. Each on to one's taste, ya know. I just happen to love the music of the later style - Jules Ah See, Billy Hew Lin, Barney Isaacs, Alan Akaka and the rest of the Byrd's nest. I also play pedal steel (gasp ), but not for Hawaiian music. |
keaka |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 10:00:24 AM
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"If you want the real steel sound you must get a solid body version and a good pickup."
This is only true if you want the electric sound so much in vogue now. Bob Brozman seems to favor the older acoustic instruments, and his sound and style generally reach back to a much earlier era. This is all a matter of personal preference.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 11:53:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by rendesvous1840
"If you want the real steel sound you must get a solid body version and a good pickup."
This is only true if you want the electric sound so much in vogue now. Bob Brozman seems to favor the older acoustic instruments, and his sound and style generally reach back to a much earlier era. This is all a matter of personal preference.
Unko Paul
just what I was trting to get across, compadre, in my oblique, left-handed way. btw, Kory & me stay Kailua fo' week. |
keaka |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 2:33:48 PM
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Hi -
I've been kinda tryin' to stay out of this, but hey....
Bob B and Stacy Phillips are fine musicians. I know both of 'em-- Bob since the 80s when we were both on Kicking Mule, Stacy via PSGW where we both have taught.
Slip's 100% right: they play like it is 1928. Nothing wrong with that.... or is there? (Hee, hee, here we go... )
Here's my take: If you are playing in a situation where you are faithfully recreating an earlier era, great. I love that stuff... I play stuff from the 20s, even.
But... IT AIN'T 1928. He said, loudly.
And that's my beef---and I ain't alone:
Why play flashy, 20's style doo-dah hacky-doodle in a contemporary idiom? (And you'd better believe that the way slack key is played now is a contemporary idiom.) Would you blast 20's style New Orleans tailgate trombone licks all over a straight ahead jazz arrangement?
Or, to take it from the other direction: try to sit in on with old time fiddle and banjo band with an electric guitar and drum machine.
Yep, what our lad does on those CDs is that jarring to me. Taste, as you said.
When I asked him recently, Stacy had never heard of a single contemporary Hawaiian steel player. Not one. He was actually quite surprised that anyone was playing in Hawaii, let alone that the style had progressed in the last, oh, gee, 90 YEARS!!!!
Ditto Bob. He once told me -- actually, he's told me a dozen times.. that he is completely not interested in any music recorded after 1928. I guess that means he doesn't listen to his own records?
OK. So, yeah, it is a matter of taste. I happen to like both Stacy & Bob as people, as musicians, as scholars. I respect the heck out of their chops and their knowledge and their teaching skills. I own some of Bob's recordings, some of Stacy's books & recordings. Yadda yadda.
In fact, I think Brozman is one of the finest solo performers working today. Yep, every bit as good as Roy Smeck. Too bad Vaudeville's dead, cuz the boy would kill on that circuit.
But I'd rather not hold either of 'em up as models for what the steel is supposed to sound like in this century.
Want nahenahe? Listen to Barny Isaacs and George Kuo's Dancing Cat CD. Yep, you can play sweet on a dobro.
And Bob's been really developing a great touch on that acoustic. Don't know about banjo-steel, tho.
End of rant.
(Gee, maybe this is my Bose moment???) 
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guitar yogi
Akahai
Kiribati
67 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 4:41:35 PM
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| Thank you for all the info folks! I know so very little about Hawaiian music that each post here has valuable information for me. (My main expertise is acoustic and electric Blues , so I hope you all will forgive me for my ignorance.) I had no idea, for example,that Bob Brozman would become a controversial topic! I definately want to check out his instructional videos though, as well as his newer album with George Kohumoku. But I also like Barney Isaacs with George Kuo, too, as well as the newer, electric lap steel stuff- although I don't know anything about it yet! I've got a lot of listening to do, but this is a lot of fun to learn about a new kind of music. I really enjoy this website. OK, now I'll get back to practicing "Radio Hula" again! |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 10:13:58 AM
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Well said, Yogi.
There is room for it all.
Dig around on youtube for some great vids of Jerry Byrd playing acoustic. Sweet. And by all means pick up on Feet Rogers. He is kind of the touchstone for contemporary players.
So where in Oregon are you?
I'm way down south (where the sugercane grows... ooops, wrong genre) but I'll be up in Portland for the Old Time Festival.
See, I told you I like music from the 20s. |
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fred d
Akahai
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 6:02:16 PM
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| Right on Mark I'm am old southern boy did't learn to spell or wright well and sure don't talk good I did learn to fight but all that did was bring on more trouble after my operations and strok. I feel it's time to mellow I tryed Uke nothing mandolin, 4-5-6 string banjo, guitar blues, country, bluegrass, nothing. Was given a old (1923) OHAU square neck, found tuning on the net and fell in love. The music is both mellow an stimulating at the sametime since acuring this instrument 2yr. ago I have bought a Gold Tone wessenborn and a Pieve Lap steel bought severals books and would realy like any help I can get I even started to read about about Hana the Hawiian way at 69 my life is just starting again thanks for any help fred |
fred davis |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 10:20:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark
Want nahenahe? Listen to Barny Isaacs and George Kuo's Dancing Cat CD. Yep, you can play sweet on a dobro.
Hey, Mark - How about MY 8 string Dobro? I have it tuned to C6/Bb like Barney, and I use it a lot at parties and acoustic jams, playing as sweetly or as swingy as I can.
For Fred d - I'm older than you, so there are still a lot of chances to learn and have fun for us old guys, too! Go to Mele.com and, from the "Music" menu, select "Steel Guitar". It'll blow your mind! Greg Sardinha has put out 6 excellent CD's with cuts by contemporay steelers, and there are 2 great CD's - "The History of Hawaiian Steel Guitar" and "Legends of Hawaiian Steel" that are very educational, especially the liner notes. btw, Every album in this thread is still available. I just checked. We need all the steelers we can get! Every time I come to Oahu, I take lessons from Alan Akaka, who is helping me sound more and more Hawaiian. Also, Alan has a lot of kids taking lessons on steel. Check his website. He will give you lessons over the Net via Skype. Go for it! |
keaka |
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Acustic--Wessenborn style guitar playing
