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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
 Posted - 02/14/2011 : 05:47:25 AM
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Valentine’s Day is typically a day to fall in love with someone all over again. But I am instead using it to break up with my love of 37 years: Hawaiian music. And in case you think you already know why, you probably can’t begin to imagine why.
The displays of (at best) discourteousness and (at worst) outright hatred I have witnessed in the short few hours since Tia Carrere’s Grammy win yesterday have literally and figuratively broken my heart. Whether it be the comments on Facebook or those right here on taropatch.net, the epithets have only grown nastier and more personal. I have not only lost my faith in music. I have lost my faith in people.
For many of you, Hawaiian music has been a hobby. But for me, it has been my life. For when I had nothing else, it was the only thing that I had to live for. I wonder why I did it now. I wonder why I gave so much of my time, my energy, my soul, my heart to something that did not want me back. That is worse than my worst marriages.
I don’t know why any outsider thinks he has the right or the privilege to play Hawaiian music. And as we have seen from similar debates in the past, it doesn’t matter if the “outsider” is from Los Angeles, Seattle, or New Jersey, and it doesn’t even matter if the outsider is of Hawaiian lineage. The general feeling expressed – not in so many words – by the Hawaiian music community in Hawai’i is that no matter how you define “Hawaiian music,” the farther the artist from Hawai’i, the less Hawaiian their music.
Forget about awards and competitions for a moment. Tia Carrere (and partner Daniel Ho) created a piece of music not for the purpose of winning an award. They went into the studio to try to create art. Whether or not you call it “Hawaiian music,” and whether or not Tia and Daniel are from Los Angeles or they just dropped in from another planet, they landed with a message filled with joy, hope, and love. After all, the title of the work is “Huana Ke Aloha” – “Overflowing With Love.” I would like to say that I can only imagine how Tia or Daniel feel to have brought a musical message intended to be filled with aloha but only to be met with such hatred. I would like to imagine it, but I don’t have to. I am Tia Carrere. In a small way, we are all Tia Carrere. Most of us here at taropatch.net are outsiders with some desire not to play armchair quarterback to Hawaiian music. We want to get in the game. We taught ourselves – or each other – slack key guitar or steel guitar or how to sing a Hawaiian song. Some of us do it passably and others of us more admirably. But it doesn’t matter how good or bad we do it. Hawaiians are predisposed to hate us for our attempt. There is a lot of history to be overcome – history I no longer have the time, energy, or patience to overcome.
For years I was told why I could not perform Hawaiian music – not should not, but could not. I was told that you could not play Hawaiian music unless you had been to Hawai’i. So I began spending two weeks, three weeks, a month at a time there. But that did not change hearts or minds. I was told that you have to speak Hawaiian in order to sing Hawaiian mele with feeling. So I studied the language and the poetry for countless hours. But then the kicker. I was told that – just as only a black man can truly understand the blues – only a Hawaiian could meaningfully perform Hawaiian music. Some went even further and said that only Hawaiians had the right to perform Hawaiian music. And that was when it hit me. After 20 years of trying to be taken seriously performing Hawaiian music, all of these obstacles were random. Some of your favorite Hawaiian music artists (and kumu hula) do not live year-round in Hawai’i, but you have not lost respect for them. Some of your favorite musicians in Hawai’i cannot speak the Hawaiian language, but they sing Hawaiian songs and sell thousands of CDs. I have asked some of them what they are singing about, and some of them – to my amazement – could not tell me. And many of your favorite musicians in Hawai’i are not Hawaiian. They just happen to live in Hawai’i. So all of these obstacles were not real. It was simply that those who did not want me involved in Hawaiian music put up obstacles until they found one that I could not overcome. Even if I studied mele until my eyes bled, even if I were willing to give up my career of 20 years and relocate to Hawai’i, there is still one thing that I could never be: Hawaiian.
You should see the hatred being spewed on Facebook. Some of your favorite artists – your heroes – claim to have been “robbed” of the Grammy, and their fans liken the loss to “Captain Cook all over again.” Is this really how I want to be viewed – as having stolen from Hawaiians what rightfully belongs only to Hawaiians? The recent thread here was about how easy and inexpensive it is to make a CD. Do you want to know why some of us have not made a CD? You witnessed it yesterday. It doesn’t matter whether or not we choose to compete for an arbitrary prize. It is not that they do not want us to win. It’s that they do not want us in the game. I am apparently good enough to sing two songs at the Waikiki Marriott on a Thursday night, but I suspect now that when I get on the plane to come home to New Jersey, I get mocked, taunted, and jeered as badly as they do Tia and Daniel. Have you ever wondered if they laugh at you when you get on the plane to go home after Aloha Music Camp, or even when you get in your car to go home after the local visit from your favorite kumu hula?
So if you see Tia as I do – as one of us – then this is what they do to her… what they do to us. But what about what we do to each other? What was written here on taropatch.net yesterday by the mainland community was as disrespectful as what I read on Facebook from the Hawaiian community. Who are we to judge even as others are judging us? Are your attempts at making Hawaiian music a joke? If not, why would you dare mock others? But the saddest part about what happened here on taropatch.net is not merely that we are attacking someone like us. We are attacking one of us. After all, when you don’t know if “onaona” should be pronounced “o-nah-o-nah” or “o-now-nah,” somebody invariably says, “Ask Amy Stillman.” When someone wants to know the words to a Hawaiian song they heard on a 78rpm record from the 1920s, they say, “I bet Amy Stillman would know” And yet even as you respect and trust a fellow taropatch.net member to answer your questions honestly and thoroughly, you do not respect or trust her enough to produce an album worthy of a Grammy Award? There was never such a lack of aloha as displayed by members of the taropatch.net community toward one of its own. And if you could turn such a critical eye to someone as well trained, well respected, and scholarly as Dr. Amy Ku’uleialoha Stillman, I wonder what you say about each other? It is one thing not to enjoy Tia and Daniel’s CD and to have our own personal reasons for this. It is another to say that their work does not deserve accolades when none of us are as well trained, well respected, or scholarly as the producer of the work. The NARAS voting block may not be well versed in what makes Hawaiian music Hawaiian. But as fans of and performers of Hawaiian music (or, at least, what we like to think is Hawaiian music), we should know a little better. You may not like Tia’s voice, but you cannot dispute that her use of the Hawaiian language is pristine. Who do you suppose is the orthographical expert on a Tia Carrere recording? Who do you suppose taught Tia to correctly pronounce the words that came from her pen? Go ahead and mock your beloved taropatch.net auntie. And then go ask her for some more free advice on how to be and sound more Hawaiian. What is the Hawaiian word for “hypocrite?”
So if the Hawaiians revile the mainland musicians who perform Hawaiian music, and if the mainland musicians who perform Hawaiian music revile each other, what is left to say? I want no part of this anymore, and I wish I could get back the 37 years I gave to Hawaiian music and give them to something truly worth my time. It might be easy and inexpensive to make a CD, but I would never do it now and let the community of musicians who claim to love Hawaiian music and the people who make Hawaiian music trash me as they have trashed each other. This is not what music is supposed to be about, and it is certainly not what humanity is supposed to be about.
Huana ke aloha,
Bill
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 06:22:09 AM
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We love Amy dearly. For so many reasons. Just because someone does not particularly care for this recording does not mean that they don't have the utmost respect and aloha for her.
All I have to say is Amy, I love you very, very much and I respect you more than just about anyone I can think of.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 02/14/2011 06:29:50 AM |
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Kaiulani
Akahai
77 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 09:10:25 AM
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Aloha e Bill,
I have been quiet many times for fear of being chastised.
My husband Kimo & I love the Hawaiian culture, music and creating songs together with our hearts...FULL of ALOHA.
We LIVE it!
I find this lack of Aloha that you write of and that I have witnessed extremely sad and full of jealousy.
Aloha is supposed to be with open heart and giving.
I find on Taropatch that Aloha is often VERY lacking.
It doesn't matter if you are of Hawaiian blood!
Aloha is what matters...
Please keep the faith because we need people like you who love....and NOT hate!
I feel your hurt and sadness...
Me Ke Aloha,
Ka'iulani
www.GalleryKauai.com |
Me Ke Aloha,
Ka'iulani
www.GalleryKauai.com |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2174 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 09:44:47 AM
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Categories of music help identify the region / time period / style of a certain sound. Just because it originated in one area doesn't mean that it can't be listened to, appreciated, or played in another. Musicians are especially guilty of being influenced by others. Thus the oud of the eastern Mediterranean morphed into the lute then into the mandolin. The accordion and its relatives descend from the east Asian sheng. The harp gave way to the hackbrett-hammered dulcimer that developed into the piano. Taorpatch tuning was found in Central European lute tablature from over 400 years ago. In ancient Egyptian tombs, ancient stringed instruments were found. Next to them, ancient picks. Next to the ancient picks were found ancient capos. Every culture sings of loss, home, natural beauty of the world, humor, etc. We're first and foremost humans. Thus we can relate to something "foreign" because of commonality. All humans are in a state of growth. Some maintain their immaturaty and ignorance better than others. If I really cared about what others thought, I wouldn't be playing the music that I now love, but would sound like top 40. Don't let others limit you. In the end, small minds are only to be pitied.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste and a waist is a terrible thing to mind. Jus' press. |
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Kaiulani
Akahai
77 Posts |
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Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 10:24:57 AM
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Hey Bill,
It for some of the reasons you have expressed was why I posted my thread about racism and music etc. I was admonished for it , but I have also senced this contradictory devide amongst people. But its not just hawaiian music , its a symptom of the spiritual sickness of the whole world. Sadly it seems the devide is widening. Don't join the haters by hating them back.
As i said music is subjective, who is to say who is the best? It is something of the spirit that is supose to trancend cultural boundries , not create them.
As far as what is true hawaiian and true hawaiian music, if people were realy purests, then you would have to say only the ancient chants with native instruments (this rules out guitars and ukulele which were spanish) and only to be performed by the people of Ni'ihau , becuase realy they are the only true hawaiians left, most every one else is mixed blood.
I wouldnt give up the music, I mean did you realy take it up because you had soemthign to prove to someone else? Or did you do it because you fell in love with the music and the culture? This is my reason and I don't care who says otherwise , I let the spirit guide me to all sorts of music and had enough coincidence and spiritual experience to tell me to follow my heart. Mabee this is the basis for the expression 'hawaiian at heart' and the true basis for the music, not something in location, or genetic percentages. To get right down to if humans originaly evolved in africa, so we are all africans! If you feel this way then you can't stop. you need to not sucum to the negativety but continue on and to educate. I just started to learn the language so I don't knwo how to say it exactly in hawaiian but I'll try. Keep the kuleana pono. Mana malama.
I love the sound for the music and the language, also the many of the beliefs. The music I make, it is not 'hawaiian' music , its MY music , no matter what has influenced it.
Here is a video by IZ I like his intro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cAbHGZ6F8M
mabee the song also reflects the lost aloha. |
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Ikaika
Aloha
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 11:05:22 AM
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Bill,
To mangle a cliche, "Opinions are like 'okoles. Everyone's got one"
Just because someone, anyone, has an opinion, doesn't make it true, or The Law.
I, too, am not Hawaiian, but "Hawaiian at heart." I listen to the music, attempt to play the music, and dance hula because I love the culture, and what Living Aloha stands for. Sure, I may catch some flack for it, but I then consider the source, and move on.
A friend of mine told me a story about how a kumu hula was going to teach him some extremely sacred, almost secret, old chants passed down from long ago. When my friend told the kumu he didn't think he should learn them, that it wasn't right, the kumu asked, "Why?" My friend said, "Well, I'm not Hawaiian." The kumu said, "So?" Couldn't say more after that.
Where was I going with this? Oh yeah, point is, don't let the naysayers, and the kūkae-heads keep you from doing what you love and learning about what you love. Do you play for them, or do you play for you and the love of playing it???
--Bill B |
The easiest and hardest thing to do in life is Live Aloha.... |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 11:09:23 AM
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| Well, as I often say, "There are only two kinds of music, good and bad, and I play them both". I find it difficult to engage in the music of another culture beside the one I grew up with. I LOVE Hawaiian music, and I try to play it. The steel guitar is a difficult instrument to play "like a Hawaiian". IMHO, it is easier to sound Hawaiian on uke and guitar (although my slack key playing, susch as it is, still sounds like Etta Baker would play it). After 7 years of pursuing Hawaiian steel guitar, I am finally getting positive response to my playing from Hawaiians. There are SO many subtilties to intonation, approach and phrasing! Thanks to my good friend and kumu mele, Alan Akaka, I am getting there. Country and Western Swing are in my blood, and I have to make room for Hawaii there. |
keaka |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 11:11:43 AM
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I am interpreting this thread that if you don't like "Huana Ke Aloha" as much as you liked any of the other nominees for Grammy; or even if you think one of the other selections should have won instead, that it is showing disloyalty or lack of Aloha to Amy. That cannot be further from the truth.
Frankly I think people summarily dismiss the music because of who is singing it. And that has nothing to do with how much aloha we have for Amy. It merely has to do with the tastes of those doing the listening. But it is obvious that other people do have a taste for Tia's singing styles. Because it was voted on and it won. That says an awful lot doesn't it? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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fred d
Akahai
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 2:15:19 PM
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 Ahola my friend if this is something you love don't let the Bastar##!!! get you down It seems to me that there are far more haters than lovers ( when I raced bicycles I was told a lot that I would never make it when I won the national championship these same people told they knew I could do it YA ) since then I could care less about the nasayers I do and continue to do what I love (hawiian music ) yet I an old redneck from North Carolina. Please reconsider we love you and Need people like you I need all the help I can get and I'm about as far as one can get from being Hawiian The music about Love is far better than bluegrass, country, rap, ect I started about 18 months ago on an old Ohau lap guitar went to a Wessenborn and Artisan lap and now a double neck Detrick I play poorly but I try If you quit who can I look to for advice this music is a Dieing art and we need each and everyone of US at 70 I need all the help I can get I these haters? bother you call me anytime at 916-725-1228 with your knowledge I would forever be in your debt the haters are just that and probley envious of your skill Please!! Please!! continue and help US who need you and your knowledge to keep this beautiful music alive for the future Let us make love (hawiian music) and not war (hate) the second is easy the first is a life experence Play on my friend and play well yours in hawiian music fred |
fred davis |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2174 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 2:23:56 PM
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| BTW, Bluegrass is played in France, Germany, Italy, the Czech Rep, Japan, Korea, Brazil etc. Just check YouTube. MUSICIANS play music. We can't help it, to quote Slipry1. |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 3:06:16 PM
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Bill,
I remember this statement you made in a post a few months ago, and I quote from it directly:
"If you subscribe to insider/outsider theory - or even if you are just a mainland haole who wants to know more and more about Hawaiian things - than you know that it is difficult to learn as the outsider - for a variety of reasons. If it is our shared desire to learn, then, I don't think we should create more and more pockets of "insiders" and "outsiders" within this forum. I think it should be alright to post a dissenting opinion without fear of mass reproach filling one's e-mail inbox. I think it should be OK to write a review of a new Hawaiian music CD that isn't positive and not have virtual eggs thrown at us. (Not every new Hawaiian music CD is good. Not every link to every YouTube video is precious.) These things are not, in fact, sacred. And I, for one, don't think that our kumu want us to go through life accepting everything and questioning nothing."
I believed that the statement you made was right then, and I believe that the statement is still right.
No one has done more to inspire me to learn about Hawaiian Music more that you have over the years. That is a very sincere statement. Absolutely no one. It would be a loss to us all, if you were to stop participating in Hawaiian Music and at the same time stop participating at taropatch.net. |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
Edited by - markwitz on 02/14/2011 3:07:48 PM |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 4:32:09 PM
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Just to be clear, nothing about my previous lengthy post speaks to whether or not Tia Carrere’s CD was worthy of a Grammy Award or whether or not the other nominees were or were not equally worthy. There is nothing about merit in my post.
There are two themes in my post. One is about how Hawaiian musicians treat other Hawaiian musicians. And the other is about how those of us who are not Hawaiian but who love Hawaiian music treat each other.
I don’t come around here often for a reason I have asserted before: Because I do not feel that many members of this forum can debate cultural issues without emotion, and I do not feel that many members of this forum can debate cultural issues with respect and dignity. The last time I said this, many of you came out in force to say that, in fact, taropatch.net forum members can indeed debate amicably and politely. On the Grammy debate, however, I see little evidence of that. And if I extend the argument to Facebook – where, perhaps, people feel safer for some reason – the ugliness among our own tiny community is even more pervasive.
If you look at the behavior of taropatch members across both taropatch.net and Facebook, on the issue of the merits of the recording that won the Grammy Award, one taropatch member said, “Ack,” another taropatch member said, “Phooey,” and another taropatch member said, “Robbed ain’t the half of it.” I don’t think that such statements – no matter how brief these statements may be – reflect an understanding that such statements have connotation. “Ack” and “phooey” do not connote disappointment and do not simply connote, “I didn’t care for the CD.” “Ack” and “phooey” are value judgments that say that the CD was not deserving. And as most of us do not have the musical or cultural capital to make such an assertion, who among us is in a position to make such judgments? There is a difference - whether or not we acknowledge it - between “Phooey” and “There were CDs I liked better.” How can any sentient human being not see the difference between these two statements? How can we write something down so quickly without considering how we might be misinterpreted and who we might hurt in the process? And to say “robbed” is to infer a crime and ascribe blame for it. To say that one artist was “robbed” of the award blames the winning artist for doing the robbing. Why would we make a statement that has a connotation of blame? Why would we make a statement that makes the winner feel badly for winning instead of merely consoling the loser for losing? Why would we make statements that pit people against people?
In what I consider to be the most grievous example, however, one taropatch member referred to this thread by saying, “We are getting dissed for supporting real Hawaiian music” on taropatch. How can we say as a group that the winning CD doesn’t suit our personal tastes and at the same time accuse the winning CD of not being “real Hawaiian music?” That is a judgment few of us here are knowledgeable enough to make. I, for one, did not say that any one CD was more deserving than another, and I did not characterize any of the nominated CDs as not representing “real Hawaiian music.” These are words being put in my mouth. And, to Norman’s point, this is how we create “insiders” and “outsiders.” We do it to each other.
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Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 5:56:15 PM
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Oh so what you are upset about is more of an issue of wording and polight language? I agree there is a right and wrong way to word something , that you can state an opinion with constructive and ballenced critisism instead of just being 'fippant'. Or is it more about the extreme of attitudes about the music. Sorry I'm a bit confused about your intent.
the way I read most of your first post, you go into things about why the winners were worthy, and what you have seen of attitues about the music and being a non hawaiian playing hawaiian music etc and peoples opinions of each other the the viability of the music as it relates to that.
also you said:
"For many of you, Hawaiian music has been a hobby. But for me, it has been my life. For when I had nothing else, it was the only thing that I had to live for. I wonder why I did it now. I wonder why I gave so much of my time, my energy, my soul, my heart to something that did not want me back. That is worse than my worst marriages."
here you are blaming the music. Many of your other statments refered to the nature of the arguments about 'what is hawaiian' etc. Mabee thats why we commented on that.
As someone who has obvious done their share of study on things hawaiian, you must see that people are the same all over , and with aloha the islands have also had their share of war. its a human condition everywhere you go, people pitted against each other, on the internet, in their governments, their jobs, too often their own families and homes. People are hurting , you can't blame the music for that. You don't want others to lay blame while you are laying a general blame yourself. You are making your own divide too.
Often I don't think people realise how the things they say can sound or how hurtful it can be. Many people are not good with expressing themselves or are carless with words, Others have 'hang-up' that make them lash out and spiteful, much of it ego driven. hurting people hurt people. you are lashing out too , in this thread, at the community in general. I can understand your feelings on this, it is disolutioning,that ther isn't more of a feeling of aloha and ohana.
All who were in the contest were worthy of recognition I'm sure and deserved to be there. You are right to wish people to be respectful and gracious toward the winners, even if their personal choice would be someone else.
You should definatley support the winners with congrats and consol the losers of the contest and encourage others to do the same. We need less hurting and more healing.
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2174 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 10:37:16 PM
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Much nuance can be lost when tone of voice and or facial expression are absent.
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2011 : 02:04:16 AM
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Bill - come out and say it.
I am the one who said "Ack". That is an expression of complete surprise. Perhaps I should have said "Oh" or some other equally bland expression of surprise. Ack is kind of like having a mouth full of cofee and something surprising is said and you swallow too quickly and sort of choke on what you had in your mouth and hope it doesn't come out your nose. So I said "Ack". Because I was surprised.
I am the one who said "Robbed ain't the half of it". Yep, me again. That was to a post on facebook in reaction to Dennis Kamakahi's post about "We were robbed" or something to that effect. Because I was so sure in my own mind that their CD had been marketed and promoted and designed specifically to garner a Grammy and I was totally amazed that it did not win something that seemed a "shoo-in" or even to me seemed to be designed to win this year to squash the furor that happens every year when, frankly a Daniel Ho creation wins. Once again, my opinion and not designed toward the artists or the producers but those who I imagined in my own mind who "pulled the strings".
And guess what? I said "Phooey", too. I said that on a post on Facebook where Sonny Lim contratulated Tia C. I told Sonny he was a gracious gentlemen and that I was less so. And I said Phooey.
Those are words expressing my surprise, consternation and disappointment that the recordings that I favored more did not win. I do not think "phooey" is too ugly of a word.
And I am also the one who said we are being dissed for supporting real Hawaiian music. I guess you are right on this one. I should not have said that. I should have said we were getting dissed for supporting traditional style Hawaiian music. Because that is how I interpret what you say. You interpret what I said in a way not quite what I felt when I said it and perhaps I interpret what you said in a way other than you meant to present it.
This music does create passions. That's why I like it. And it seems far and away that I am not the only one who feels this way, but obviously one of the few who is stupid enough to say what I think and feel.
But that is just how I am. If I love something I say. If I don't love something I say. And I try to be less than boring in how I say it.
So Bill, I do not mind if you say "Wanda said..." because I did say all that stuff.
But all you said does not change my aloha and admiration for Amy.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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My Love Affair With Hawaiian Music Is Over
