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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
 Posted - 03/03/2011 : 07:51:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Retro
By suggesting that his networking skill is "the main reason he wins," you DO take away from his music; I hope you see that distinction.
I am having trouble finding almost anybody who can make this distinction. Likewise, I am having trouble finding almost anybody who can understand that "inappropriate win" is a backhanded way of saying "undeserved win."
What I would like to see is an op-ed from a respected Hawaiian musician or scholar who can explain in vivid detail what aspects of Tia and Daniel's work are not Hawaiian enough. Unlike certain catagories at the Na Hoku Hanohano Awards, there are no geographic restrictions on eligibility for the Grammy. So if where the artist chooses to live and work is not an eligibility issue, then let one of the detractors explain their real motivations for citing the winning recording as "inappropriate."
I continue to work on the survey. It might as well be a doctoral thesis at this point as it has required both a thorough literature review and a review of nearly a century's worth of Hawaiian music recordings in order that - as Alexander Pope might have said - "the sound must seem an echo to the sense." While I was previously interested in understanding our thoughts - the taropatch community - on what we think Hawaiian music is, I am now far more interested in discovering what the Hawai'i community thinks Hawaiian music is. Because I'm not sure they know anymore. I'm not sure anyone knows anymore. As was elucidated so nicely in Dr. Stillman's public forum on Hawaiian music last week, one participant said, "You can't change a thing until you know what that thing was."
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 09:00:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hwnmusiclives
"You can't change a thing until you know what that thing was."
And when that thing is any human expression of a creative art, then change is a key element. |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 09:53:58 AM
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I just realized I may have written something that may implicate certain members here, and so I wish to correct it.
I wrote:
quote:
I think some of the issue is how well the nominees know the language,
but I cannot help thinking that this could be what happens when academics get involved.
I want to make sure that I did not lead anyone to believe I got any information like that from an "academic" member. I did not.
I am not even sure if anyone has made that incorrect connection, but I need to make sure it was not taken that way.
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 1:09:30 PM
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Bill
I took the time to look into your music and let me tell you something Bill, you are very, very talented! Good enough as a musician and singer to be-IMHO--a future grammy winner yourself.
I would like to turn your request as to "why they are not Hawaiian enough" around if you don't mind, Bill.
Try this A-B comparison and tell me why you think the detractors are wrong.
Perhaps I did not choose an appropriate video and you can offer another link to a more suitable video from Tia. One that you think is good.
Tia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNOd1LQBh3k&feature=related
Cyril
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL4cHaFapGw&feature=related
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Bob |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2173 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 1:48:45 PM
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| Vote with yer wallets. One size don't fit most. Personal taste and appreciation are rarely objective. Hindsight can be 20/20. There is far too much to learn to worry about some matters. Continue to jus' press. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 2:34:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
Vote with yer wallets.
And you don't have to join NARAS to do that.
And tell us what music you LOVE - if we put into positive words just 10% of what gets poured into the negative messages ... well, my music-buying budget would have to increase greatly, just to accommodate the suggestions I'd get from TP'ers. |
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 7:26:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Retro
I have had no more contact or pressure or attention towards attracting my votes from Daniel Ho than I have had from Jeff Peterson, Dennis Kamakahi, or many of the other nominees in past years . . .
It has been just as easy for all of these artists to stay in touch with, to "network" and communicate with me, whether 2000 miles of ocean separate us or not; physical proximity is irrelevant in today's world. . .
By suggesting that his networking skill is "the main reason he wins," you DO take away from his music; I hope you see that distinction. . .
Would you say that all the potential voters share your passion and understanding of Hawaiian music?
I think, that name recognition definitely plays a huge part in the rest of the voting population's decision on who to vote for. I don't see that as an [bold]unfair[/bold] advantage. I mean really, what is the solution? Should Daniel Ho and Tia Carrere halt all music production and stop submitting their albums to the voting process? That's a dumb idea... although some people might just be in favor of that.
It is what it is.
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2173 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 7:33:19 PM
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| TOO GOOD ALREADY! GEEV'EM! If bradda was in Seattle, he would gig, guaranz. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 7:53:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sm80808
Would you say that all the potential voters share your passion and understanding of Hawaiian music?
I think, that name recognition definitely plays a huge part in the rest of the voting population's decision on who to vote for. I don't see that as an [bold]unfair[/bold] advantage. I mean really, what is the solution?
I think you are absolutely right - they likely don't share it. And tied to that, you are right again as regards the name recognition factor.
The solution I see is the one I've stated before - more involvement by folks qualified to be Academy members. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 7:54:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
TOO GOOD ALREADY! GEEV'EM! If bradda was in Seattle, he would gig, guaranz.
Perhaps someday, we will all make that happen (if he doesn't give up, that is). |
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Falsetto2002
Akahai
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 9:55:10 PM
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Reading this has made me dizzy.
There are great points that have been made here. I think some of these or all of these need to happen for Hawaiian Entertainers to get into the loop.
1. We are Hawaiians and need to get more of the music to play in strategic cities/locations within the US.
2. Aim the music to not only Hawaiians, but to those who like Hawai`i for what it is; its music and culture.
3. Position oneself strategically (mainland) and get into the pockets of those in power; for its about rubbing elbows with the right crowd through net-working.
4. Join HARA and NARAS to get in the circle.
Does one have to sell his/her soul to get position? Not really. To Grammy Votes, one has to strategically position oneself.
Though I do not like what occurred at the Grammys, I see that they strategically positioned themselves and net-worked to get those votes.
So, lets even out the playing field by getting the right people (promoters and producers) in the right places. Will it cost money? Hhhheeeeeccckkkk yeah it will. And that's brings the residual money in the long run, and the votes. Like I say, "set your eyes for the finish line." Though you may have to run in sand, get konked in the head by coconuts, walk over boiling lava. The bottom line is that finish line....da Grammy
Am I confused or what? LOL
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Leo Ki'eki'e
Kalei |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2173 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2011 : 05:40:31 AM
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| Location, location, location. The nail that sticks up gets hit. Being noticed, or better yet, in a postiton to be noticed. Then again, without some isolation, a regional style or genre wouldn't come about. Jus press. |
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 05:44:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
TOO GOOD ALREADY! GEEV'EM! If bradda was in Seattle, he would gig, guaranz.
+1 |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 07:50:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sm80808
quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
TOO GOOD ALREADY! GEEV'EM! If bradda was in Seattle, he would gig, guaranz.
+1
And not only that, you'd have a band waiting for you - Da Oddah Guyze: me, thumbs, no'eau, and retro, sometimes falsetto2002, baritone & hapakid. Losta good times! |
keaka |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 06:15:48 AM
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Attempting to <ahem> get this thread back on track for just a moment as it was not originally and was never intended to evolve into being about me but somehow has...
Thanks for all your compliments. But as long as you're throwing around compliments, what? You've got absolutely no love for the rhythm guitarist? That's me, too - the only falsetto contest winner to play more than an 'ukulele at the recording session and the only one to arrange the tunes. But, whatever. 
I have spent a lot of words on this forum talking about "insider/outsider theory." This is not something that strictly pertains to "inside Hawai'i" and "outside Hawai'i." You can have insiders and outsiders right in the same state... in the same city even. I don't get a lot of calls to perform in the NJ/NYC metro area. I have spent 20 years trying to figure out why. So I simply chalk it up to "my music is not Hawaiian enough," and I move on. And, by the way, this is not simply a matter of economy. Sure, I don't get called for the paying gigs. But I also don't get called for the ones that are manuahi.
So, as the Hawaiians say, c'est la vie. But I am still not going to be moving to the west coast anytime soon.
We are not going to publicly debate how Hawaiian or not Hawaiian my music is. I was surprised to see a link to "Ida's Hula" on taropatch. If you Google that link, you will not find that complete tune anywhere on the internet. (Per my contract with Hula Records, I am not permitted to give away that which they sell - even if I have personally never seen a dime from it.) That song is on my FTP site for my reference, but it is not on my public website. So who knows how these things get around? But we're not going to use it as a referendum on what is or is not Hawaiian. I don't mind being subjected to the same scrutiny as Tia and Daniel, but why would I do that to myself? I would have to be an idiot.
As for my conducting an A-B comparison of Tia and Cyril and what is or is not Hawaiian, we're not going there, either. My whole point through all of this tirade - almost a month in duration now - is that none of us are qualified to do that. It is sad to see the "Hawaiian-on-Hawaiian" crime that the Grammy Award has left in its wake. But that is a fight for the Hawaiians and Hawai'i's musicians to fight. If you're not Hawaiian, you can like the music you like and - as Mark Keali'i Ho'omalu had the prescience to say - "call it what you like." But what I have humbly asked is that we - the outsiders - stay out of the fray. We can go to Aloha Music Camp and get training in slack key, or we can take steel guitar lessons from Alan Akaka. (I would be lying if I didn't say that I wish I had been able to do either in my lifetime so far.) But what there is none of - and what there can never be - is a class in how to be Hawaiian.
Because "being Hawaiian" is not something you do. It's something you're born.
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