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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
 Posted - 04/25/2011 : 07:21:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sm80808
Question for everyone: What do you think was accomplished by having this forum?
The views of those angry with the path of the Grammy wins have been disseminated widely for some time, while the perspective of the winners themselves had been largely silent. I believe this forum was an opportunity for those being attacked and excoriated (often with erroneous accusations) to discuss their viewpoints publicly. |
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kuulei88
Akahai
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2011 : 12:23:21 AM
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Aloha kākou,
The Dialogue program titled "Debating Culture" was a special addition to the series of four roundtable Dialogues convened under the title "...aia i ka wai ... Dialogues on [the Present & Future of] Hawaiian Music" at UH Mānoa. Complete information on the series is posted on my blog site at http://amykstillman.wordpress.com/dialogues/ and the series was promoted extensively via posters, press releases, email and on facebook.
The entire series brought together groups of folks who had been active in various facets of Hawaiian music--production, performance, recording, education, etc. Each program was an opportunity to reflect on past accomplishments, and consider whether progress is "on track," or if other directions might be considered. There have been precious few (if any) public organized opportunities for busy musicians and busy educators and others to come together, reflect on experiences, and share perspectives.
The original series of four programs followed a particular path, starting with documentation about Hawaiian music and its history, to fostering conditions for producing Hawaiian music, to reflecting on the place of creativity and innovation in Hawaiian music, and finally to asking what UH faculty are doing to identify and address what kinds of approaches to Hawaiian music are needed.
The opportunity to bring Daniel Ho and Tia Carrere together on a program materialized only in late February. I tried my very best to recruit panelists from various positions in the issues swirling around Daniel & Tia, as well as a neutral moderator, which would free me to be a panelist. Over a 6-week period I contacted over 30 folks. Many already had prior commitments; others simply did not respond to my contacts. So the fact that last Thursdayʻs program appeared to be one-sided was NOT my intention; it ended up being Daniel, Tia and myself because I was unsuccessful in recruiting others, and I take all responsibility and shoulder all blame for that failure.
I want to go on record to express my gratitude to Hoku Zuttermeister for stepping forward last Thursday and very passionately articulating his manaʻo. There cannot be dialogue if legitimate concerns are not put on the table to be discussed. There cannot be dialogue if there are only personal attacks, overwhelmingly aimed repeatedly at Daniel & Tia, without getting to more fundamental frustrations.
That said, he latest exchanges of "Daniel Ho said ... " vs. "This is a transcription of Daniel Hoʻs words from an audio recording of the event" demonstrate the lengths to which people will go in order to make an argument over what they want to believe happened, regardless of what the accused parties themselves may explain is their thinking on the matter, and in what appears to be continued disregard for what the accused parties state as their position.
Given the immense interest this program has stirred, I shall be posting a video recording of the event. You will all be informed when the video is available for viewing.
ke aloha no,
Amy K. Stillman
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2011 : 03:55:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kuulei88
Auntie Amy said some important stuff, etc., etc. 
With her usual graciousness, Dr. Stillman - IMHO - greatly downplays the fervor that ensued after the final dialogue she hosted last Thursday evening. For those of you "friended" to numerous next generation Hawaiian musicians on Facebook, you have watched the ugliness unfold first-hand. If you're not friended to these individuals, I will not be the one to replay these attacks for you.
I can attempt to categorize them, however, by saying that the debate over who has the right to play Hawaiian music has evolved from issues over where one lives and creates their music to a much more serious issue of race (the kind I described in my February 14th rant on this forum). Now the word "lineage" keeps coming up over and over again in the debate. So do the words "tradition" and "kupuna." And these are words and issues that are inextricably intertwined. But issues of who makes the music, or where, or their nationality contredict the wisdom of ethnomusicologist Ricardo Trimillos who said about Hawaiian music, "I know it when I hear it." That should be true whether the music is made in Hawai'i by Hawaiians or anywhere else in the world by anyone who cares about the music and culture - as long as those musicians honor the Hawaiian people and their culture and do not seek to mock or humiliate. (To which any sane person would ask, "Who would do that?")
But even amidst this discourse on "tradition" there is another Facebook diatribe taking place among the next generation Hawaiian musicians about appropriate compensation for their work. I think we can all agree that musicians deserve to be paid, but they aren't always paid. And nowhere has this been more true historically than in Hawai'i - where even the finest and most professional of musicians have always been expected to perform manuahi at tutu's 80th birthday party, their great-grandniece's Christening, or their sister-in-law's cousin's funeral. Although I am an outsider to Hawaiian culture, I was raised by the local Hawaiian community on my coast to believe in giving one's talents freely - literally and figuratively. Of all of my gigs in 40 years, about 87% have been unpaid, and that has always been fine by me. I thought it was tradition. I thought Hawaiians thought this, too.
So, in what has been a very trying week for the Hawaiian music community, this is my analysis: Many Hawaiian musicians believe that tradition is the most important thing, but these same musicians desire to pick and choose the traditions they will uphold. And this doesn't make sense to me. How would the kupuna feel about this? If what the kupuna taught he alo a he alo is considered inviolable, then who gets to choose which one of those lessons is important and which can be ignored? If this pattern continues, we are going to see so many splintered fractions within the Hawaiian music community. There is a town in New Mexico of population less than 300 but which has 12 Baptist churches - each one a splinter of one that came before because they disagreed with how a person should be "Baptized." That's 12 different ways of Baptizing. Can you imagine a Hawai'i where there is divisiveness over whether you play an acoustic bass or an electric bass... an acoustic steel guitar or an electric steel guitar... use written music to perform on stage or memorize your charts... perform without pa'ani breaks to accommodate the hula or incorporate instrumental solos so that the dancers must remain glued to their chairs... perform songs in both English and Hawaiian or perform songs strictly in ka 'olelo makuahine... pronounce onaona as "o-nah-o-nah" or "o-now-nah"... perform songs taught to you by your grandmother and grandfather or choose to write songs of your own... sing all melodies exactly as written down or improvise... pā an ipu with only quarter- and eighth-notes or roll your fingers to make sixteenth- and thirty-second notes... use ha'i when you sing falsetto or don't... perform for free or insist on getting paid... make your latest CD in a ProTools studio or on 2" analog tape running at 15ips?
So I will tell you simply what I told them: Keep this up and you will kill your own culture...again.
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Edited by - hwnmusiclives on 04/26/2011 04:41:47 AM |
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2011 : 07:22:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hwnmusiclives
So I will tell you simply what I told them: Keep this up and you will kill your own culture...again.
Really? That seems a bit dramatic.
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2011 : 08:06:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sm80808
Really? That seems a bit dramatic.
Really, it's not. Many look at the cultural renaissance in Hawai'i in the 1970s through a historic lens and romanticize that period. But they forgot how they got to that period in the first place. You can name the falsetto singers of importance to the 1970s and 80s on one hand. The same is true of steel guitarists and 'ukulele soloists. There was no market for this music - even in Hawai'i itself. So fewer and fewer records were getting released each year.
Why did a new generation of young Hawaiians look on their own culture with (at best) disinterest or (at worst) disdain? What did it take to make them interested again? The culture was all but dead. What happened? Why isn't anyone asking the question...so that they don't repeat the mistakes of the past?
What did it take to revive Hawaiian culture? Simply put, an injection of that which was new and exciting - not traditional. What is traditional about Kalapana, Country Comfort, and Olomana? What is traditional about Sunday Manoa and their use of Rolling Stones riffs as lead ins to 100-year-old chants? What is traditional about the use of drum programming as an accompaniment to the compositions of Mary Kawena Pukui? The Hawaiian renaissance did not revive tradition. But it did revive Hawaiian culture.
That is the significance of that period that is lost on the current generation. The young musicians in Hawai'i who are so invested in the debate about what is "Hawaiian" and what is "traditional" forget that it was the status quo that led to widespread disinterest in Hawaiian music and hula. Force stylistic parameters on what can and cannot be done with mele, and tell me why exactly the disinterest that grew before could not grow yet again?
What so many in this argument lack is the desire to achieve balance. People view this issue in black-and-white. That is what will kill the Hawaiian culture - the inability to bend a little bit to reach concensus, unity, and aloha. I have never seen an argument more lacking in aloha.
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2011 : 4:12:32 PM
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Seems that Hawaiians are humans too. Every cultural group has grappled with these same issues. Put a culture under glass and it dies. Living culture is produced by living humans. Every time we do an action, it is a little different, whether from space, time, or other variables. In Hawaiian music in the past, Big Band and Jazz influences were heard. Hawaiian music had a big influence on mainland Country. Even the Blues great B B King acknowledged his love for the sound and tone of Hawaiian steel guitar. Humans appropriate what they observe others doing by using those ideas in a new way. Change is part of the process. Without change, death of a culture occurs. Everyone has to invent their own wheel, or better yet, see the wheel's application and use it in a personal context. New instruments come, old ones fall by the wayside. Dances change, songs are added to or deleted altogether.
As to compensation, no musician is truly compensated for all the time, effort, agony and elation that comes from playing music. Practice time is dollar empty. Buying a good instrument and maintaining it is another black hole. How we love it, though. Just having someone nod appreciatively and knowingly when you play or better yet, having someone to jam with, those are the priceless moments. Music is communication beyond words. Bottom line: Jus' press. Also, jam with friends.
Some are out to control others because of fear. Some seek to be controlled because of fear. Some few seek to control their own situations and conquer their own fears. The first two groups do not understand the third group. |
Edited by - thumbstruck on 04/26/2011 4:17:56 PM |
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2011 : 11:19:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
Just having someone nod appreciatively and knowingly when you play or better yet, having someone to jam with, those are the priceless moments. Music is communication beyond words. Bottom line: Jus' press. Also, jam with friends.
I definitely agree with you there. I hope I am home by the time you visit next, sir.
quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
Some are out to control others because of fear. Some seek to be controlled because of fear. Some few seek to control their own situations and conquer their own fears. The first two groups do not understand the third group.
To really simplify the situation I see the people engaging in this debate as coming from three general angles:
There are a few people who like to think they had a shot and got screwed by "the system". These folks are probably the source of the most negative statements regarding ethnicity, validity, etc. and probably do constitute as "attacks". Really though, they are in the minority from what I see... they just have loud noticeable voices.
Then there are a few who just like to arm chair quarterback and be "experts" and try to impress everyone with their knowledge of history and/or tout their "lineage". That's cool up until the point they start to tell others the ways that they are wrong or that things have to be x/y/z to be pono.
At the end of the day being an "expert" or having some genealogical connection to history still makes your opinion on the matter of taste just as valid as the next person... no more, no less.
And then,
What seems to be the majority; people who really care about the state of the music and want to see the Hawaiian music that they love perpetuated in a way that honors those that came before them and what they value personally and just state how they feel. That seems pretty valid and worthy to me.
That is just my interpretation of things and $.02
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So what do we have in the end? To me, the same thing we started with.
There will never be complete agreement on what "traditional" "legit" "Hawaiian" music is and isn't. Why are we pretending there has to be?
Music will continue to be made one way or the other. No one is getting censored. The world keeps turning.
People know what they like when they hear it. Traditional, contemporary, whatever. If people have a connection to the music then it will be remembered. If not... Only time can tell. |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2011 : 12:01:31 PM
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Shawn,
Excellent statement. I agree 100%. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2011 : 03:28:41 AM
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| Well stated, Shawn, and I hope to see you next time I get to Oahu. The majority may not play instruments (the pizza of life is too big to eat all the slices), but music is still a big thing to them for community, comfort, relaxation and mental stimulation. |
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PearlCityBoy
Lokahi
USA
432 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 3:14:56 PM
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Interesting interview with HARA Board of Governors V.P. (and fellow Taropatcher) Pali Kaaihue about the loss of the Hawaiian Grammy, the Hokus, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7nXMnPxfxA&NR=1
Aloha,
Doug |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 12:45:48 PM
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For those curious about the changes in this year’s Grammy system – as you know from earlier discussions, Hawaiian music is now incorporated into the Category of “Best Regional Roots Music Album” (as part of the “American Roots” field), alongside Native American, Cajun/Zydeco & Polka releases.
This year’s eligibility list consists of 55 albums, 13 of which are Hawaiian. They are:
* “No Ku`uipo” – Ahumanu
* “Kale`a” – Kawika Alfiche
* “Hula” – Robert Cazimero
* “Aia I Hi`ialo” – Hi`ikua
* “Kaunaloa” – Kuana Torres Kahele
* “Wao Akua – The Forest Of The Gods” – George Kahumoku, Jr.
* “Play With Me Papa” – John Keawe
* “Aina” – Mailani
* “Kawaipono” – Kenneth Makuakane
* “In My Heart” – Doug & Sandy McMaster
* “A Tribute To Na Lani `Eha” (various artists)
* “Na Haku Mele O Hawai`i” (various artists)
* “Wahine” (various artists)
In addition, voters are no longer restricted to voting in a limited number of specialized fields (which, as we’ve often discussed, leads to bluegrass experts choosing to vote in a field that included Hawaiian, etc.); now, we are allowed to choose up to 20 individual categories (out of nearly 80), in whichever fields we like. This is to encourage voting only in the areas that are our individual strengths, rather than just filling out categories in fields where we were voting for something.
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2011 : 7:51:28 PM
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One Hawaiian album made the cut to be a nominee (announced tonight) --- congratulations to Uncle George!
Best Regional Roots Music Album
For albums containing at least 51% playing time of new vocal or instrumental regional roots music recordings. NOTE: This category is intended to recognize recordings of regionally based traditional music, including but not limited to Hawaiian, Native American, polka, zydeco and Cajun music.
1. CAN'T SIT DOWN
C.J. Chenier
[World Village]
2. WAO AKUA - THE FOREST OF THE GODS
George Kahumoku, Jr.
[Daniel Ho Creations]
3. REBIRTH OF NEW ORLEANS
Rebirth Brass Band
[Basin Street Records]
4. GRAND ISLE
Steve Riley & The Mamou Playboys
[Mamou Playboy Records]
5. NOT JUST ANOTHER POLKA
Jimmy Sturr & His Orchestra
[Starr Record]
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Edited by - Retro on 11/30/2011 7:59:05 PM |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2012 : 05:40:46 AM
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Latest on the lawsuit filed about the elimination of categories, from NY Times Arts blog:
Judge Dismisses Suit Over Cuts in Grammy Awards
By PATRICIA COHEN
A New York judge has dismissed a lawsuit filed against the Recording Academy’s decision last year to slash the number of Grammy Awards by nearly 30 percent, The Associated Press reported.
The lawsuit was brought by a handful of Latin jazz musicians including Bobby Sanabria who argue that the elimination of categories for Latin jazz, Hawaiian music, zydeco and American Indian music discriminates against certain ethnic groups. The Academy also did away with separate categories for male and female vocalists. Eliminating the awards – which bring attention not only to the winners but also to their musical genres – has done the musicians irreparable harm, Mr. Sanabria and his fellow musicians contend.
Neil Portnow, the president of the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences, who has defended the reduction of Grammy categories to 78 from 109, applauded the ruling by New York State Supreme Court Justice Jeffrey Oing to dismiss the suit. He said that the decision “makes it very clear in the eyes of our legal system” that the academy had done “all of the changes that we’ve made through our process based on our own rules, regulations and bylaws.”
Mr. Sanabria said he had not yet ruled out an appeal. “It’s disappointing but I expected this to be a long fight,” he said. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2012 : 6:05:04 PM
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Two of 'em made the cut this year:
Best Regional Roots Music Album
Malama Ko Aloha (Keep Your Love)
Keola Beamer
['Ohe Records]
Shi Kéyah – Songs For The People
Radmilla Cody
[Canyon Records]
Pilialoha
Weldon Kekauoha
['Ohelo Records]
Nothin' But The Best
Corey Ledet With Anthony Dopsie, Dwayne Dopsie And André Thierry
[Corey Ledet]
The Band Courtbouillon
Wayne Toups, Steve Riley & Wilson Savoy
[Valcour Records]
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Grammy's cut Hawaiian Music category
