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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
 Posted - 08/25/2004 : 12:08:55 AM
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Sorry Patrick,
Cynthia and I had this last weekend totally booked and promised three
or four months ago with things that were not easily avoided. In fact,
Cynthia is still up at her Mother's for the rest of this week.
Otherwise you would have seen us at at least some of you workshops.
Seems like lots of folks had a worthwhile experience. We could make
it at another time if things we had already booked did not get in the
way. It might be wise to schedule it at a time when there were not
so many regular annual Bay-Area Hawaiian music events occuring at the
same time. (You can check Saichi Kawahara's Newsletter for most of
the events) However, as long as you sell-out on the registrations, it
is not a business problem.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 08/25/2004 12:10:44 AM |
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 03:23:12 AM
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Aloha everyone,
So this question came up, as it did also on Maui for George's Workshop: how should we rate the levels for classes? There have been times when I thought to myself: "What in the world am I doing in this class, and how do I get up and leave without offending the instructor?" I feel it is really important that we arrive at some standardized categorizing of abilities.
One suggestion was that we set levels, as in 1 to 5, with 1 being billed as "Introduction to ukulele (guitar, bass, etc.) It would include things such as how to hold the thing, how to strum, how to tune and restring, with the start of several easy chords or strums.
Level 2 would be for those who have played for several months or a year, and we could go all the way to level 5 which would be for those advanced enough to just want additional tips for enhancing techniques.
Does anyone else think we could benefit from some structure here? I would like to get a little more direction when I sign up for workshops next time.
Aloha, Julie
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MahinaM
Lokahi
USA
389 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 03:42:53 AM
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Aloha!
Thank you, thank you, thank you Patrick, David, Dennis, Herb, Cyril, and all the support staff for putting on such a wonderful and magnificent event! You all worked very hard and long hours throughout the entire weekend and still managed to be so helpful and attentive to everyone. Your generous ohana spirit was felt by one and all and was very much appreciated. Collectively, you created a very successful and memorable weekend for me and hopefully for all who participated. It was terrific to meet fellow Taropatchers as well as making new friends. I feel so blessed and fortunate to have been part of this truly magical experience, while enriching my musical skills. With this being only a weekend, I can only imagine how awesome a week-long workshop/camp would be!
Again, mahalo for all that you do to keep Hawaiian music and its traditions alive and well. I look forward to your expansion and continued success into the Pacific Northwest (Seattle is much closer to us Oregonians than the Bay Area!), and hope to meet more Taropatchers up there in January! Now, it's time to practice, practice, practice!!!
Fueled by Rice Crackers,
Mahina M (Maggie) |
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hwnslacker
Lokahi
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 04:12:52 AM
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Aloha Maggie!
It was great meeting you and Elizabeth! Glad you had a great time and we'll see you in the PNW in January!
Aloha!
Patrick
www.patricklandeza.com |
Edited by - hwnslacker on 08/25/2004 04:13:28 AM |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 11:09:56 AM
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Patrick,
The certificates you gave us were very nice. How about HMI t-shirts with that beautiful logo on them? Fof the Aloha Music Camp, Mark Nelson uses Cafepress for online orders. With something like that you wouldn't have to handle product.
Just a thought.
Mahalo nui,
Dave |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 1:18:33 PM
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javeiro
Lokahi
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 4:34:57 PM
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quote:
So this question came up, as it did also on Maui for George's Workshop: how should we rate the levels for classes? There have been times when I thought to myself: "What in the world am I doing in this class, and how do I get up and leave without offending the instructor?" I feel it is really important that we arrive at some standardized categorizing of abilities.
Hooray, Julie! I'm not the only one that feels this way! Perhaps in the absence of a standard, promoters of the various worshops could better describe what they consider to be the level of play that each workshop is meant to help.
Aloha, |
Aloha,
John A. |
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sdm
Aloha
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 5:05:50 PM
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I agree with the idea for a rating levels system; at BAHMI, based on the criteria listed on Patrick's website, I was obviously only qualified for the beginning slack class, and I got a tremendous amount out of it. For the beginning uke class, I felt my abilities were somewhat in between the requirements for the beginning and the intermediate group, so I chose the lower group. No regrets, as I certainly benefitted from it, but it was hard to choose.
Steve
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enr1co
Aloha
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 7:54:21 PM
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I thought the class descriptions on Patricks site were pretty accurate-
http://www.patricklandeza.com/j3/servlet/NewsItem?newsItemID=12
I enrolled into the intermediate and advanced class and found material that I could manage, some difficult and some way over my ability (for now) but with learning an instrument as with life, its about getting out of the "comfort zone" ;)
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 8:39:20 PM
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Aloha kaua e Julie,
Your suggestion is just another reason for us (Sarah and me) to admire you. The whole notion of dividing folks up into levels of abilty at camps or workshops too often depends upon economics. "How many of what kind of person signed up for what kind of instruction?" It is one of *several* reasons why we don't attend any of these any more. That is a true pity, because we would not have met any of our favorite people had we not done the first AMC. But, in the last analysis, we have to ask ourselves "what are we getting out of the experience?" If the object is to learn how to play and sing Hawaiian music, the current answer is: not much. If the object is to understand more about Hawaiian culture, for us, the answer is the same. If the the object is to make more friends, that is another story. If the object is to have an interesting vacation, I can think of a dozen ways to have a very interesting vacation with loads of kisses and hugs on a few continents; including Hawai`i (which should be considered part of the Polynesian continent). Neither Sarah nor I have ever been placed within an appropriate learning category *except* when our friends (Kevin, Bill, Uncle Sol, David, to name some) have pointedly taken an interest in what we were, or were not, doing and suggested what we should do to improve.
In my Taiji Quan lessons, I have learned that the same thing is true. Groups of people with different levels of understanding, abilities and interests just don't make it. Often the end points are catered to: the beginners who are likely to drop out or the hotshots who are easy to satisfy.
Too bad art is a business.
Me ke aloha pumehana, ku'uipo,
...Reid
PS. Keep up the painting! |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 9:27:53 PM
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This skill level business really bugs me, too, and I've stayed away from some workshops because of it.
Economics may be a part of it, but as I was thinking about it, it actually is a complicated issue. I think if meaningful criterea would be set, there would be a huge amount of gipping in the slack key community which likes to see itself as very egaletarian, open and all-accepting. In addition, from what I gather from atending workshops and speaking with the "masters" - there doesn't seem to be much energy for "grading" or "hierarchy"
Then, in addition, you could be at a very advanced level in tuning A and a rather beginner in tuning B.
-How do you set the criterea? You can't use amount of time you've played slack key -- people learn at different paces and bring different skills and backgrounds to the scene.
- Each instructor could explain what they are going to do and what level of playing is required -- but that varies so much from one instructor to the other and, let's face it, they don't often keep to their described agenda
- Often in schools, students audition and then are assigned classes based upon demonstrated skills/performance -- sort of "qualifying" auditions. Again - can you imagine the outcries that would occur even if you could get a group of recognized "masters" to hold auditions or certifications
-- A "standard" could be established that could be used more informally. This would still require the cooperation of and coordination of at least a few "Masters" -- I'm thinking of a 5 or 6 level model -- maybe a CD or booklet.
Two possible models: But the skills level would have to be specific to each tuning:
One: Present a booklet/CD of 6 songs of increased difficulty - If you can play a few songs like the example, you can say you've reached this level.
The other model is based more on a combination of skills/ songs: (Only examples)
Level 1 : You can do the following:...... tune your guitar, play parralel 6ths up and down frteboard.
Level 2 : You can play at least 4 different positions for at least the I-IV-V of the tuning, both strumming and with at least 2 picking patterns
Level 3 : You can play a song of this kind of difficulty and get it to sound similar to this recorded sample. Then include 3 or 4 songs as examples.
Level 4: Similar to level 2 but more complicated chords, picking, etc. Maybe including knowing a certain amount of songs.
Level 5 : You can play three different pa'ani for at leastt x number of songs. You have a repetoire of x number of songs.
So - what's the bottom line for me -- a meaningful rating system is probably too complicated. The best we can hope for are statements like: "This workshop is appropriate if you can play all the songs in Ozzie's book, or Mark's book, etc. |
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javeiro
Lokahi
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 11:03:46 PM
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| As usual Raymond, your post is well thought out. And you're probably right when you say that a rating system could get very complicated. I guess if one wants more than a taste of what slack key is all about, then workshops are probably not the best place to learn. Perhaps that would mean saving your money for a private lesson instead that would be geared perfectly to your level of skill. And maybe that's why they're called "workshops". That said, I have to admit that I'm actually attending my first workshop August 28th and I haven't ever been to one yet. I just paid for both sessions and I'm certain that I will learn something there. |
Aloha,
John A. |
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 12:22:20 AM
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My goal with this "rating" is not to stuff everyone in little boxes. Good heavens, as an artist I paint "outside the lines" all the time. I was just reminded of a workshop class I attended where several people had no experience whatsoever on the instrument, and they should have been in an "introduction to" session. (It was a beginning/intermediate session.) The main problem was that they hijacked the class and brought it almost to a standstill with their questions and comments, etc. etc.
It would have been much more productive for everyone if the instructor had the ability to recommend another class for them. As these people did this repeatedly, they built up quite a lot of resentment with other students. A real shame.
I hope I never hold up anyone else. But at the same time, I would like to get everything I can out of a session, and so it is very important that there are clear guidelines, as well as having the flexibility to decide that one is in the wrong class and can a change be made.
I like this level structure, mostly so I can figure out if I'm in the right place or not.
Julie |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 01:51:56 AM
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I think what you're talking about is a function of the teacher -- and most slack key teachers are very generous people who want their students to learn as much as they can -- and seem to have a lot of difficulty telling people some form of "no. (Having been the presenter at lots of workshops and seminars, and having faced the very issue of keepibg to the announced topic -- I settle the issue by using an outline for my presentation, and keeping discussion till near the end. (unless the session has been labelled as a discussion session.) I think this can work even for slack key, if there is a desire to implement it, but the instructors need to be upfront clear about their goals and the level of competence they want to address.)
My pet peeve is going to a workshop to learn from the teacher and sometimes not even being able to hear the teacher 'cause "hot shots" are playing their guitars and even ignoring when the teacher is speaking to the group. Sometimes I feel like they attend workshops more to show off than to learn from the teacher. (and now I'm braced for criticism) |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 02:55:18 AM
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I started this thread out of gratitude. This is not about what "I" didn't get out of "my" workshop because there were "beginners" in "my" class. If you're in a class that's over your head you have two choices: get out or shut up and listen. If a class is below you then shame on you for thinking that way. I've never taken a class where I didn't learn something. If you're that much of a snob then pay the big bucks for one-on-one lessons and leave the rest of us alone. Start your own institute and filter out who you want to attend.
We're all beginners here folks. These people have been playing on stage since they were kids. They grew up with this tradition. They can play this stuff in their sleep. You'll never be that good. Be grateful that they are willing to share this stuff at all; no matter the level. Be thankful that you can play at all. Be thankful you can play like you. Just be thankful. I am.
Dave |
Edited by - `Ilio Nui on 08/26/2004 03:01:08 AM |
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