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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
 Posted - 03/09/2005 : 07:36:58 AM
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I have started to notice that most slackkey acoustic music I listen to is brighter than anything I do. Sure, there may be some "filtering" involved, but I suspect it has more to do with picks or nails. Question is this, first do you agree. Second, what is better? Nails or finger/thumb picks? I bite my nails (I know, bad habit)... Should I just bite the bullet and start using picks?
Mike
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Aloha, Mike |
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David
Akahai
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2005 : 08:34:09 AM
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The sound you create by picking is a personal quality. Only through experimentation will you truly find answers to this question. Especially through my other instruments, such as dobro and banjo, I have gained familiarity with all kinds of picks. For slack key, I seem to favor nails and a thumbpick. This is especially handy because it allows palm damping, which done correctly can give the illusion of two instruments playing. If I break a nail, then I break out the fingerpicks. I maintain 3 fingers and my thumb nail for slack key, and if one nail breaks I'm into the picks until regrowth.
I have a very good friend who plays bare fingered, having picked this way long enough that he's actually picking with callous. He plays professionally, and enjoys playing with nails. He just grinds them down to nothing rapidly with the strings and aggressive picking. For me, I can't imagine playing this way. But he gets nice sound from his guitars.
I like my thumbpicks to be stiff and comfortable. Golden gate pearloids last a long time and feel great. Thumbpicks always get the treatment, dipping in hot water and shaped. Nationals and dunlops are just not durable. Picks by The Pound makes a nicely shaped one too.
Fingerpicks can be used to good effect, and take time getting used to. I prefer two types, depending on what I'm doing. Propick makes a twin banded type in both brass and nickel/silver. They are comforatable to wear for hours, and do not dig into my cuticle. The brass lends a slightly less bright sound. I have other picks called Showcase 41's, which are an extremely well made copy of old nationals. These cost me about $7 a pair and are worth every penny. They are also available coated with cobalt, in theory to give them greater smoothness. I don't think this is necessary. After you have purchased your picks, you'll want to curl them to the contour of your fingers, according to taste.
Playing with picks will probably offer you increased speed, but at the expense of some expressiveness. Certainly if you get good at picks, they can be very expresive. Darn it, I have a fracture on my middle nail now. Bet I did it with the snow shovel.
When you're beginning, it's good to mentor off of someone whom you admire. Watch them and see how they create the magic and try to duplicate the sound. I am always very observant of someone's picking techniques. |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2005 : 11:05:50 AM
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I have tried and tried to use a thumbpick, but I just can't get the hang of it. I have tried lots of different ones, shaped them, shortened them, and still get them too deep between the strings and caught or whack the string accidentally, and I simply can *not* do pinches with one. I would love to be able to use one, because it is ergonomically better for old guys like me with bad tendons - the thumb just goes straight and parallel to the strings and doesn't have to be bent. So, is there some trick to using them or am I just a terminal klutz?
...Reid |
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David
Akahai
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2005 : 11:42:52 AM
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It's just a matter of practice Reid, and a dramatic change of the hand's approach to the strings from standard fingerpicking. As far as snagging the string, it's important that the pick fit slightly snugly against the thumb at the terminus of the bend. If this is sticking away too far, it will eventually snag on the strings. Also, the natural tendancy is to dig too deep. There is no way of avoiding placing yourself back to square 1 and feeling like a clutz for a while.
The hand is held in less of a hovering position. Practicing damping technique is difficult as well, because the hand is quite flat and the picking fingers have a further adjustment. |
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Pops
Lokahi
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2005 : 4:01:22 PM
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| I learned using finger picks and a thumb pick and I played that way for years. My favorite thumb picks were the clear, pointed ones made by National. I haven't seen them in many years, but I still have one left that I keep in my case just in case. Over the years I've found that playing with bare fingers is the most enjoyable to me, more intimacy. I read a quote once by Leo Kottke that basically said using picks was like taking a bath with you socks on (I don't know if I agree with that but it's worth a chuckle). I tend to only use picks when I absolutely have to for public gigs where volume might be necessary. If you can handle the getting use to it I'd say try to go without picks, but it all comes down to what feels right to you. The important thing is to play as much as you can. |
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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2005 : 5:56:05 PM
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This is great! I relate to every poster here! Putting picks on seems to turn me into a clutz. I can definitely manage the thumb pick...but I really dislike not having the "feel" of the strings on my fingers (thumb seems less important). What might be interesting is some kind of "glue-on" fake callouses for adding that textured sound. Oh...my lawyers are currently patenting the idea as I speak.
Personally, when I am flat picking, I prefer a textured pick. I guess some use it to increase grip, but I love the kinds of sounds that can be produced with these picks.
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
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Mark E
Lokahi
USA
186 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2005 : 7:15:29 PM
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Back on the subject of fingerpicks vs. fingers, I played with fingers (fingernails) for some 35 years. Then, I tried fingerpicks because I was trying to get more volume on a 12th fret 1st and 2nd string bar. Wow!  I couldn't believe how much of a better sound as well as volume I got on my upper strings!
Granted, this was with my Kent plastic picks which, per another thread, I am still trying to find or duplicate because they haven't been around since the 70's. (As a result of David's comment, I've just ordered some cobalt coated picks to see if they do the trick.) My problem with the metal ones has always been a scratchy sound on the wound strings while the available plastic ones - like Dunlops - use thicker plastic than my Kents and thus sound duller (although still much louder than fingernails). Perhaps shaping them will help.
As a result of so many years of playing with fingernails, I still hit wrong strings with the fingerpicks because the strings aren't where my fingers expect them to be. Because of this, I have tried going back to fingernails many times since the discovery of fingerpicks. And I just can't do it. The treble strings sound so soft compared with the base strings, I don't know how I could ever have been satisfied with the sound. Also, I am amazed at how much better the tone is with fingerpicks - especially on inexpensive guitars. But my vintage Martin, too.
So, if you haven't tried fingerpicks, I suggest giving it a shot. You, also, may be impressed.
Aloha all,
Mark (E) |
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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2005 : 05:57:28 AM
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OK, I am going to try some cobalt picks...but my problem is not with the thumb pick...I can manage that...probably will stick with plastic thumb pick because of the very problem you mention with wound strings. What I do not like about the plastic finger picks is the excessive bend in them...at least with metal picks I can bend them. Thanks!
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2005 : 06:30:10 AM
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| Reid, I have a variety of thumb picks you can try when you and Sarah visit. |
Dusty |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2005 : 07:53:04 AM
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Thanks Dusty, and maybe you can show me how you use them. I will certainly need lessons, 'cause I am not getting very far on my own. Part of the issue, I *think*, is that, because of my spine, I need to use a Neck-up (like John Keawe does) in order to put the guitar in a good position for me. The hand/string geometry doesn't have a lot of wiggle room because of that. The other thing, of course, is that I have lousy small muscle coordination :-)
...Reid |
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David
Akahai
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2005 : 09:49:26 AM
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Mike, one suggestion before you rush out and get cobalt picks, first find picks that are comfortable. Any metal pick can be cobalt coated, but comfort is the thing if you are to spend hours practicing. Here's a contact for Bob Perry, who will bead blast the interior and cobalt coat the exterior of any pick I beleieve. I have only heard rave reviews of his work. He sells showcase 41's too, which are hard enough to find, and only a couple dollars more coated.
http://www.cobaltbp.com/
Another idea for thumbpicks are the Propick metal picks with delrin attached. I have a couple different types of these picks and they can be adjusted to be very comfortable. They have nice tone as well. |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2005 : 10:06:36 AM
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Reid sez:
quote:
Thanks Dusty, and maybe you can show me how you use them. I will certainly need lessons, 'cause I am not getting very far on my own. Part of the issue, I *think*, is that, because of my spine, I need to use a Neck-up (like John Keawe does) in order to put the guitar in a good position for me. The hand/string geometry doesn't have a lot of wiggle room because of that. The other thing, of course, is that I have lousy small muscle coordination :-)
Yeah, I need a good position too. The neck-up doesn't do it for me. I used to use a foot stool & the classical position but that hurts my left knee. I now use a strap ala Ray Kane but I don't play with the neck quite as close to vertical as he does (I don't sound the same, either). |
Dusty |
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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2005 : 3:30:49 PM
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Thanks David. In fact, that is what I did today. I went to the shop and bought some metal finger picks (did not any metal thumbs).
They are extremely maleable...I did not expect that.
Thanks for the link, I will check it out.
How many of you use just one, or two or three finger picks? Why?
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
Edited by - slackkeymike on 03/10/2005 3:31:42 PM |
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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2005 : 4:31:39 PM
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OK. I give up. I know I am going to embarass myself with this question...but I want the answer. Perhaps someone else will come along and read this and not have to ask...
How does one wear a finger pick? I have always assumed "cat claw like". To me, that is really hard to do (thats why I never persued it). I just tried reversing them and that worked MUCH better.
OK...I got my helmet on...let it rip.
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
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Mark E
Lokahi
USA
186 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2005 : 6:56:05 PM
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Hey, Mike -
I think you're right. If by "cat claw like" you mean having the blade of the pick going over your fingernail rather than going over the ball of your finger, then that is not the right way to wear a fingerpick for guitar playing. (The blade of the pick is the part that sticks out as opposed to the band that goes around your finger.)
I believe fingerpicks are worn the way you describe for clawhammer-style banjo playing, although not for bluegrass banjo playing.
There is lots of discussion about adjusting the fingerpick to your finger and how far to have it stick out past the end of your finger. For instance, one school of thought recommends having the tip of the pick adjusted so that it is in line with the tip of your fingernail and just past the end of the nail. I seem to hit fewer wrong strings with the picks sticking way past the end of my finger.
The following site has some interesting instructions for shaping plastic fingerpicks, by the by.
http://users.skynet.be/stotzem/tab/How_to_shape_the_picks.pdf
It's certainly good that you asked rather than remain in the dark. Bravo for your courage.
Mark (E) |
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