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David
Akahai
92 Posts |
 Posted - 03/10/2005 : 8:00:17 PM
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Actually Mark, you're kinda right about downpicking. Clawhammer is typically played with the back of the index or middle finger nail and thumb. Since these nails take a beating, many clawhammer players are proficient at swapping the downpicking finger while maintaining musicality. Some people tape their nails to prevent damage, or tape on ping-pong ball material to cover damage. Some use plastic fingerpicks on the backside, but rarely. Some dabble in the darkside, coating their nails with superglue or gluing fake nail doo-dads on. Bluegrass is typically two fingers uppicking and thumb, often with a rigid two finger plant on the head for stability. In this configuration, the wrist is often humped up a bit so that the fingers meet the strings properly. If you're palm damping .... no mo hump.
Here are some pictures showing how picks are worn. Check out the second picture of picks on this site, which show the proper twist required to get the picks to meet the strings squarely. If you pick without the twist you'll find that you will graze against the edge of the pick, and not releasing smoothly pick from the tip. Examine carefully how your picks meet the strings, and find your proper angle of twist this way.
http://www.banjoben.com/free_banjo_lessons.htm
I actually prefer more bend in the pick than these pictures, following the contour of the fleshy side of the finger. I used to wear them sticking out straighter, but had a good lesson from an instructor selling a more radical bend to accelerate speed and fluidity. But whatever feels good for you is the deal. I have the picks extend out about 1/8" or a bit less.
It is an excellent question. |
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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2005 : 8:23:51 PM
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Mark, David,
Thank you for your informative and KIND responses. 
The pictures really helped. How could I have not known this for so long amazes me. After figuring this out, I then caught on to the pick rotation thing to minimize string noise.
Considering how people play with fingernails, is it any suprise I thought catclaw was the way to go?
Anyways, very helpful & informative!
A big fat mahalo to you both! |
Aloha, Mike |
Edited by - slackkeymike on 03/10/2005 8:27:00 PM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2005 : 03:37:22 AM
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Holy Moley, what a revelation. This is so conterintuitive that I never would have thought of it. But it is very clear why it is the right way to do it. In addition, the view of the thumbpick shows that I have been trying to use one that is much too long, even though I ground it down (amateur guitarists that I have seen in person were using long ones, so I blindly copied them).
Thanks a lot for your expertise, guys.
...Reid
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2005 : 07:10:27 AM
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So, now it is about 2 hours later, and I *know* this is gonna work. I sanded down a Fred Kelly thin Speed thumbpick to about the extent of the one in the picture, and also snipped of a bit of one of the side supports. Tried it with a guitar supported by a neck-up and it didn't quite work - the neck-up didn't put the strings perpendicular to my fingers and thumbpick. Then, remembering what Dusty said about positioning, I looked at a picture of you, Dusty, to see what your geometry was like. The strap didn't work for me, but a variant of the "classical" position did to get me into a position much like yours - I looked like a skinny Uncle Ray :-)
You probably don't know that I had become a physical wreck in the last 6 or 7 years and I am trying to work my way out of it. Back then, I had to have serious spinal surgery: the whole back of the lumbar portion of it was taken off, along with ligaments and muscle attachments, and I am solidified by bone grafts and metal implants. That led to bad positioning playing the guitar, and I ripped thumb and wrist tendons, and they haven't repaired, partly because I am a hemophiliac and can't take lots of medicines, especially those that stop inflammation and swelling. So, I must wear a kind of carpal tunnel wrist and hand appliance if I want to try to play. End of boring story.
To my surprise, when in the right position, the thumbpick automatically braced my thumb so that only the thumb-wrist joint moved, not the knuckle - which is good. In about 30 minutes, I could mostly hit every string where, and how, I wanted it. I still need lots of practice, but it is clear that I can do it. Moreover, I practiced for about an hour and a half without feeling anything bad. I haven't been able to do that in years. (But, I am still gonna ice down).
Thanks David, Mark and Dusty,
...Reid
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Mark E
Lokahi
USA
186 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2005 : 7:14:49 PM
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Thanks, David, I was looking for that Banjoben site since a picture would have been easier than trying to describe, but I couldn't find it. Glad you knew where to go. I do play bluegrass banjo after a fashion although have never gotten fast. Instead, I got sidetracked into playing Scott Joplin on the banjo - kind of classical guitar style.
On the subject of banjos, elsewhere someone asked about why banjo players apologize for it. I don't know where it started, but banjo players do get used to lots of banjo-bashing jokes. Like: What's the difference between a banjo and a Harley Davidson? Answer: You can tune the Harley. Or, What's the difference between playing a banjo and jumping on a trampoline? Answer: For the trampoline, you take off your shoes first.
- Just a bit of banjo culture if anyone's interested.
Mark (E) |
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Mark E
Lokahi
USA
186 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2005 : 7:18:44 PM
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P.S. Reid - what a lot of tsurris!! Bravo for keeping at it.
Mark (E) |
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David
Akahai
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2005 : 11:35:34 PM
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Yes, the poor maligned banjo player may always be seen as offspring of Billy Redden from Deliverance, bless his heart. They Are the scariest instrument in a jam. What did the banjo player get on his IQ test? Drool.
As much as I love bluegrass and old time, Hawaiian music has always affected me more deeply. But they both seem to be largely misunderstood by the general public. Hopefully, this is changing.
Reid, hats off to you for forging ahead in spite of challenges. Perhaps the use of a thumbpick might help you achieve a more comfortable hand position. I think it encourages a more natural feeling approach to the stings. |
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slkho
`Olu`olu
740 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2005 : 1:45:39 PM
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Mikey-Mikey-Mikey, you kill me..LOL
.... this is your brain, this is drugs... happy you figured out the pick issue, (you know I couldn't pass on this one...)
I too, have difficulty adjusting to picks, although I'm trying. Bare fingers, plastic, and metal all have a unique quality for sure.
I love the way metal picks sound on the strings, very Cyril like in sound to me. Plastic provides a nice bright sound to me. Although bare fingers is the easiest for me, the sound is always "soft" to me, especially on the base strings. I hope to, in time, to be playing fully with picks one day though.
-slkho |
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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2005 : 4:06:25 PM
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Well, somebody had to ask, apparently!
Oh, well, at least now I/we know.
Keep on smiling bro.
Mike(ey) |
Aloha, Mike |
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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2005 : 4:00:44 PM
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I have been experimenting with plastic and metal (Dunlop) finger picks. No cobalt coatings. And no metal thumb pick. Seems to me that it is hard to tell the difference except in a subtle "rub" sound that the plastic pick appears to have.
Need to experiment with shortening the thumb pick. Actually tried a finger pick on my thumb. Bad angle of attack, but I did like cerain aspects of it. Need to find a way to twist it on the thumb to change angle of attack.
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
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Larry Miller
Akahai
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2005 : 7:13:43 PM
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I still have some finger picks I bought at least 40 years ago- I don't use them much so they're still in good shape. I'm using them more now with the Weissenborn style Gold tone steel- The type I have are the pointy picks by Ernie Ball- It took a bit of Googlin', but here they are:
http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/PK7.htm
You get a lot of good flesh contact and feel for the strings with these.
Whee Ha! |
Whee ha!
Larry M |
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KenL
Aloha
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2005 : 10:38:51 AM
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Been playing slack for a number of years and always with healthy strong finger nails. As I advance into my makule years my nails have substantially weakened and playing has become difficult. The tips I've heard here on proper usage of picks has been very helpful. I'm very grateful and thank you all.
Aloha, Ken  |
Manapua no ka oi |
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slkho
`Olu`olu
740 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2005 : 2:50:59 PM
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Mike, there is a metal, and plastic thumb pick that are somewhat ergonomically (sic) made. I'll have to get the names of them, ( I actually have one of each but the name escapes me). The plastic one of got from Keith the tip is angled in a unique way. The metal one I have has turned up flanges on it preventing you from "stabbing" or catching the strings awkwardly. I'll try and get those names for you.
-slkho
p.s. Maybe these threads should be in the Da Kine Gear section? |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2005 : 3:02:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by slkho
p.s. Maybe these threads should be in the Da Kine Gear section?
Sure, can do that! Da Kine Music Gear it is. |
Andy |
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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2005 : 6:12:40 PM
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slkho!!
Please warn me when you suggest a thread move!! Thought I was having a twilight zone experience!
Mike
And, I am interested in the picks you are talking about. My biggest complaint about these picks is the lost of tactile information...my fingers love and interpret the strings for me. |
Aloha, Mike |
Edited by - slackkeymike on 03/16/2005 6:14:50 PM |
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