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richonmaui
Aloha
7 Posts |
 Posted - 10/20/2002 : 3:08:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by slackkey
Aloha Ahi ahi Rich!
First of all, are you from our Valley Isle or just passing through? Jus wandering!
slackkey Bill
Hey Bill - Howzit? I live here in a little ohana in Maui Meadows. I think you and I met last weekend at Uncle Sol's b-day party in Iao. And you might be familiar with my http://www.HawaiianRainbow.com site.
I really admire players like you that can "juss figure 'em out." I can play by ear in the sense that I definitely know when a note is write or wrong, and I can definitely hear when my guitar or uke is out of tune. but I have so little experience with the guitar that I don't know where to grab the note I want to hear. I learn chords or tabs from the book cuz it's like having someone there with me saying "put dis finger on dat shtring." 
Anyway, I'm really looking forward to getting together with you guys in the kanikajamapila next time around.
A hui hou
Rich |
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Huli i ka nani o na mea apau!
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HawaiianRainbow - Hawaiian Music Now in MP3Pro Stereo!
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2002 : 1:59:02 PM
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Aloha from Oregon, reading about all you guys on Maui makes me wish I was there.... sigh.
Let me say something about Ear/Reading from a teacher's point of view .
I always tell me students that Tab is to music what a roadmap is to a journey. It'll show you one possible route to get there, but it isn't until you take your eyes off the page that you can see the beauty all around you.
If you are having trouble playing by ear, try this simple excercise. Playing by ear is a learned skill -- give yourself the permission to learn it.
1) Take a real basic song that you know by heart. -- Jingle Bells, Three Blind Mice, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star -- whatever. Sing it... out loud. See, you already know how to hear and reproduce a melody. You have to start with something simple.
2) Try to find the melody on a single string. Again, the simpler the melody, the more chance of success. It may help to sing along (out loud -- that's critical)!) as you search. Yes, it's hard at first. So practice until it isn't...
3) Tune to whatever you want, and strum the "home" chord for that tuning. (G in Taro Patch, C in Keola's C -- you get the idea). Now sing the same little ditty, making sure you are in tune with the chord.
How do you know you are in tune with chord? Cuz it will sound like it. Trust yourself -- you will know, eventually.
4) OK, now find the first note of the song.... then the second....
Be sure to go slowly enough to find every note, without making (too many) mistakes)
Once you can do this with one simple song, do the whole process again with another simple song.
The point is to gradually build up a vocabulary of musical phrases: Twinkle Twinkle starts on with a fifth; Three Blind Mice starts on the third and moves down... you don't need to know what these terms mean. But you will train your ear and hands to hear them and know where they fit on your instrument.
This is exactly how anyone who plays by ear has learned -- the difference is most of us were so young when we learned it we don't remember the process.
It's like a baby learning to walk -- you gotta laugh when you fall on your butt. |
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ohanabrown
Lokahi
281 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2002 : 4:52:30 PM
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Aloha Mark
Man!!! That was the coolest explanation I've ever heard about trying to play by ear.
After reading it over again, It really makes sense!!!..... RIGHT ON MARK!
Malama Pono
Kevin
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2002 : 08:59:23 AM
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Richonmaui, I like the way you described it -- it describes my kinda-in-between skills, too, and I'm getting better at knowing where to grab the notes I'm looking for.
I really admire players like you that can "juss figure 'em out." I can play by ear in the sense that I definitely know when a note is write or wrong, and I can definitely hear when my guitar or uke is out of tune. but I have so little experience with the guitar that I don't know where to grab the note I want to hear. I learn chords or tabs from the book cuz it's like having someone there with me saying "put dis finger on dat shtring."
I would add that I also have trouble *remembering* what I have heard, once it has "gone by" -- and the longer the piece, the more that's a problem! So the tab helps me there, too - I can go back as many times as I need to refresh my memory.
That said, I like what Mark said too --
Tab is to music what a roadmap is to a journey. It'll show you one possible route to get there, but it isn't until you take your eyes off the page that you can see the beauty all around you.
That is so true! Once I get the piece "remembered" then, I can take my eyes off the page and feel the life of the music. And that's cool!
Mahalo for your great descriptions!
aloha,
Sarah |
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slackkey
Lokahi
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2002 : 2:35:00 PM
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Hey wassssssup!!!! RichOnMaui!
Yes!!! Now I remember! It was at Uncle Sol's B/Party. At first, when I saw your posting,it didn't click right away. See you this Wednesday! I'll be there around 4:00! A Hui Hou!
Slackkey Bill |
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slackkey
Lokahi
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2002 : 04:33:21 AM
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 Aloha and Good Evening All!
Earlier this morning I tried posting a reply, unfortunately, it never went through (traffic jam in "cyber-space") Anyway, I like Mark's Teacher's point of view to his students......"Tabs is to Music what a Road-map is to a Journey" I never thought of it that way! That is so "kewl"! But at the same time so very true! I never did learn how to read tablerture, or learned how to read notes, and like Bruddah Kevin, I too wish I knew both. My learning ukulele and guitar began when both my Mom and my Dad showed me some basic chords. All that I know today was by ear.
Throughout my grade school years, all my friends and I did was just jam with our ukuleles. When there was a song they knew, and I didn't, they would show me how by playing it slowly until I got it. When there was a song that I knew, and they didn't I would show them how it was done until they got it! (watch, listen and learn) All we did was listen to a song, and after a few times we'd figure it out!
My experience with the guitar came after I got out of the Army. Before that it was just ukulele! But at that time also, my playing guitar didn't last too long. It was only for a very short time. Ukulele seemed easier. But later, I did pick the guitar up again. And that was because of Olomana's "Ku'u Home O Kahalu'u" (spelling)I beleive that was what triggered wanting to learn guitar again. But the ukulele was still the instrument I knew best. Today it's the opposite! The guitar now is the instrument I know best, and that's all due to my passion for "Kiho'alu"! All that I knew on ukulele, I passed-on to my Son and Daughter.
What I know now, and play every day, has been done by watching and listening to others play. Having get togethers every month in Waihee with Kevin (Ohana Brown), Don Kaulia, Hal Nihida, Randy Wong, Ed Kalama (just to name a few) Have made my passion for "Kiho'alu" grow more and more! So wether your just learning, or have been doing it along time....the key is to never stop playing! Get together everytime all of you have a chance too! Be it in New Jersey with Andy or CT. with Sarah and Reid. As for our gathering here in Waihee Valley,Maui Hawaii....."Sarah! Andy! Reid! Keith, and the rest of T/P Ohana...No fo-get next Wednesday 10/30/02 (3:00 P.M. to 6:00 P.M.)"
Well it's time for me to head downstairs and play some Slack Key! Take care, God Bless to you and all the rest! But above all else....No fo-get JUS'PRESS!!!!!! Good Health and Prosperity! A Hui Hou!
slackkey Bill |
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Stacey
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 01:01:53 AM
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Aloha,
Mahalo for all the advice, everyone!
Slackkey Bill ~ "So whether your just learning, or have been doing it along time....the key is to never stop playing!"
You're right on, Slackkey Bill! I have found that playing everyday is sooo helpful. That way I never have to relearn anything and I keep moving forward. I stumble through tabs and after 100 times, what do ya know, I finally memorized it! Then I put de tabs away, but if I don't play for a week, I gotta drag de tabs back out. Heh heh.
Wish I could play more by ear. I admire all of you who do. I'm hoping that with time and practice it will come to me. Happily, practicing Ki ho'alu is my favorite thing to do.
Cheers,
Stacey
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 02:44:25 AM
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I learned how to read music yeas ago and find it a valuable tool. I haven't taken the trouble to transfer that skill to the fretboard in Taro Patch, and feel the loss for it. Reading TAB is no problem for me once I know the timing and rhythm. In fact, reading always was and is my preferred way to learn. I never learned much from teachers' lectures, just took good notes, and learned from reading my notes and written material. -- Learning theory clearly shows that different people have different "primary chanels" for processing information, and mine is visual. --- That being said -- I've spent a lot of time trying to learn by ear. Mark's process is basically right on. I still can't do it "on the fly," but I can work out a lot of songs. Some of the farther out chords stump me, but I can get close enough to make me happy. I'm glad I took time to do so, especially in this area of music where so little is written.
Where I'm at now is trying to build arrangements of songs I like. (I never liked playing other people's stuff. I think that's part of why I listen to classical music a whole lot but don't play much of it.)
What I'm going to say next will probably push a lot of buttons, but I do not intend to make any statement about anybody else. People who know me know how strong I feel about anyone holding forth as a judge on others' experience or music. What I'm writing is just where I'm at. So, here goes .... I have never really enjoyed "jamming" with other musicians. This may change in the future, but for now I like to work up an interesting arrangement which tries to get to the heart of a song and which does not sound like other arrangements. To play with someone else, I prefer to work up arrangements first. I'm not saying I'm good at doing this, it's just that's what I like to do. I haven't yet found a teacher in slack key that could help me get to the next level in terms of arranging. Maybe that can't be taught. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place. So, for now, I learn what I can from the people I study or play with.
Sorry for the rambling. I haven't quite figured out how to do this chat stuff without rambling.
Raymond
San Jose, CA |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 7:59:33 PM
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quote:
I have never really enjoyed "jamming" with other musicians. This may change in the future, but for now I like to work up an interesting arrangement which tries to get to the heart of a song and which does not sound like other arrangements. To play with someone else, I prefer to work up arrangements first.
No buttons pushed, Raymond. It is certainly the player's prerogative to make that stylistic choice.
My personal thought on the subject is that a great part of the slack key tradition is the backyard jam. I've been listening to "Waialae Jammin'" today which may have something to do with it. Participating in a jam is something that I would like to do but something that I do not really know how to do. Tough learning how to play with others when most of my learning has been spent by myself with some tabs. I'd like to learn though. What I'm trying to say is that I cannot jam and it is not by choice. Just one more major difference between living in the islands vs. NJ, I suppose. |
Andy |
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donkaulia
Lokahi
249 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2002 : 2:19:13 PM
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Howzit Everybody...Brada Kevin...
Good Topic...
When you go back to 170 years ago when the Spaniards introduced the guitar to Hawaii, the Kanaka simply caught-on by watching and listening to how these foreigners played their instruments. I say this in plural form because the Spaniards brought other musical instruments like the ukulele, murachas and timbales. The Kanaka simply mastered these intruments by creating and developing their own guitar styles and tunings. The Kanaka also mastered the ukulele and percussion instruments too. At the same time, they (Kanaka) also kept their guitar styles and tunings in secret. In my own opinion, these secret tunings were kept reserved to preserve the integrity and spirit of the Kanaka. After all, the overthrow of the Queen, land acquisitions and cultural diversity caused the Kanaka to be insecured and shelfish. We see this in the Kanaka today. I prefer to use the term Kanaka instead of Hawaiian because it is the original term used to identify the indigenous people of the islands of Hawaii. The term Hawaiian is too broad and too vague to identify the real people of these islands. Too many people claim to be Hawaiians after living here for a while. In fact, Govenor Cayetano and Senator Inouye quoted to be Hawaiian. Well, I am a American and I am Hawaiian too...but not everybody can be Kanaka unless you have the blood or Koko to claim indigenous.
So...in terms of playing by 'ear', gotta thank the Kupunas and King David Kalakaua for prepetuating and reviving the culture. The music of Hawaii was saved on paper in musical manuscript form. But alot of the tunes also died with those kept in secret. From the slack key invention we Kanaka's also invented the steel guitar. By that time of invention, the Hawaiian music has been incorporated onto musical note form thanks to the Kamehameha Schools in particular. Joseph Kekuku not only invented but had it patented and copyrighted.
I hope I not boring you all but I wanted to share my mana'o on this topic because I too have walked the talk and is an offspring of two great composers. First off, Kamehameha the Great gave my Tutu Man the name Kauli'a. Tutu was a warrior from Maori, his name was Zabola Ma Kauli'a. His title Ma Kauli'a meant the King's Executioner and Commander of Warriors or the Nakoa. I learned this from Kupuna Lena Poepoe whom is assigned to the United Nations as Kahuna Nui. Kupuna Lena explained that my name was Kapu back in the Kamehameha days and that my Tutu man led the Nakoa camps here on Maui in Waikapu and Kula after the great battle in Iao Valley. Tutu Man was a trusted Commander of Kamehameha I and his grandsons James and Sam would share the power to serve in the Monarch of Kalakaua and Liliuokalani. James served the petition twice to United States Presidents Cleveland and McKinley for the illegal overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii. Sam is my greatgrandfather whom secretly served under the Queen as a Nakoa and Royal Order of Kamehameha I. Sam's son John, my father's father wrote the song E Lili'u E in honor of the Queen. John was also known as 'Puni', a great slack key and steel guitarist. In fact, while growing up in Kakaako, Gabby Pahinui quoted in the Steel Guitar almanac that he had learned from and loved Puni for his innovated 'bell chimes' of the steel guitar.
In my family generation today, only myself and my brother Kuualohanui carries on our family legacy. My brother is a Kumu Hula and has a graduate degree from the UH Manoa Hawaiian Studies and Language program. He also commutes weekly to Niihau and works with the Kanahele and Beniamina Ohana there. I am a member of the Royal Order Of Kamehameha I and also a Nakoa. I only learned about my family legacy just recently from Kupuna Poepoe and wanted to share this with all of you.
I too learned by ear at the age of 5. My mom, whom adopted me from birth saw the potential and bought me my first ukulele from Kamaka at the age of 6 and then at the age of 7 I got inspired by the guitar sounds since it had more then four strings. At age 11 my Mom used to participate in Bowling tournaments with Uncle Ray Kane. She tried to sneak me in the $1 Slack Key Instructions given by Ray Kane held by the City & County of Honolulu Parks Program at the Makaha Beach Pavillion Park. Uncle Ray found out I was too young and I thought he was too mean...so I lost interest in learning. Then one day during the summer, my Mom brought home a guitar for me. I was all pumped up and started playing along with records from the Son's of Hawaii, Sunday Manoa and Gabby. I would listen and try to tune it to the record. Later I learned that my Mom bought the guitar from Raymond Kane for $25.00. I wished I kept it. I never thought that Ray Kane would be inducted in the Smithsonian Institute. I gave the guitar to a Church friend as a gift since he had no guitar and part of the choir.
Well anyways, I learned to play by ear all through by early teens. In high school, I took choir and band and found myself confused at first but then had an advantage over the rest of my students. I played alto and tenor sax. Then moved to piano, then became bass guitarist for the Jazz Band and President of the Choir in my junior and senior year of high school. I had two bands outside of school, the Searider Rock Band and the Son's of Waianae. The Rock Band was awesome...I was the organist and pianist and we traveled throughout other high schools. The Son's of Waianae...well we did the luau circuit throughout the town. I did only a little bit of slack key in high school but wrote my own music. In college, I got $40,000 worth of combined scholarships to attend UH Hilo for business and music. My first two years there I took up Music Theory and Jazz Band. These studies enhanced my musical knowledge to where I started writing music
after meeting so many influential people. I joined a Hawaiian Club under George Naope and ended up dancing at the Merrie Monarch in 1981. It was through Uncle George that I met Moses and George Kahumoku, Ernie Cruz, Sr. and Junior. But the most influential of all was Uncle Fred Punahoa. Uncle George had me appear dancing hula and accompanying him at a luau one Spring Saturday in 1981. After our show, Uncle George came up to me and asked if I would let his cousin Fred borrow my guitar since it had a built-in pickup. I never knew who this Fred Punahoa was nor of his ability. So being insecured and all that, I hung right beside the stage while Uncle Fred was up on the stage with my guitar and started tuning. Here was this old man, dress in a dirty khaki pants, white tee shirt and red baseball cap and tuning my guitar to a different tune than my regular taro patch tune. This prompt me to move closer to see what he was doing so I could kind of hear which string was being detuned. While tuning, the whole entire party was yelling 'go Uncle Fred!', 'give 'm Uncle Fred'. Sure enough, he started ripping 'Punahoa Special'...blew me away. No effects at all. This guy was ripping his style, rubbing his elbow and back palm of his hand clearly and at the same time playing and steel guitar using the mic stand. Blew me away. I was so tripping out to see this live. While doing this, he was laughing and smiling even making funny gestures with his fingers...then he did the paper bag trick...blew me away. This is the guy that Ledward would always honor...and I can see why. If you saw how Led plays, then you would know how he learned that type of style...Punahou style. Since then, Slack Key has always been a part of my life.
Will continue with Part II...promise.
Sorry story so long!
Don Kauli'a |
donkaulia |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2002 : 4:26:18 PM
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Don Kauli'a, long, yes, but good. I'm looking forward to Part II.
Raymond, about arranging, Daniel Ho has just some brief tips on creating your own arrangements in Contemporary Slack Key Guitar. It's only 3 pages, but lots of ideas. I'm starting with zero knowledge, so anything impresses me, but even so you might be interested if you don't already have the book. Oh. I guess that's not by ear at all!  |
Pauline |
Edited by - Pauline Leland on 11/03/2002 4:37:57 PM |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2002 : 8:33:36 PM
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Pauline,
Thanks for the suggestiont. I got Dan's book when it came out -- I think every slack key player who isn't in the pantheon of greats should have a look at it. I'm looking for someone who can help me develop the middle and low strings, and expand on the basic chord patterns. Different voicings, chord substitutions, modulations/transpositions, etc. There's a lot of material out there in the field of jazz, some very useful. I'm trying to adapt it to Taro Patch, and do it wihin a 'slack key sensitivity." (By the way, when I say I cant read music while playing guitar, I mean I can;t sit down and sight read through a piece. I can work it out phrase y phrase, byt what a drag.)
Raymond |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2002 : 10:12:21 PM
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| Well, twas a thought. As for reading music, I can hesitently stumble thru simple stuff in standard tuning, but that's why tab was invented. Notation for rhythm and a clue about pitch; tab to show you which fret and which string. Funny, I always hear the argument that tab doesn't show rhythm, but in slack key playing up the neck it also doesn't show whether pitch is rising or falling. |
Pauline |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2002 : 10:24:57 PM
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TAB has actually been around since the Rennaisance lute players. I believe it was Keola Beamer that published slack key in tabulature for the first time in his first book. Yeah Keola!
Pauline, I don't understand what you mean by not being able to tell from TAB if the pitch is rising or falling. I must be missing something. Higher fret numbers on any string equals rising pitch. Movement from a lower string towards the first string generally entails a higher pitch (some stretched out chords may be a bit different on this -- but I think most follow the pattern.) What am I missing.
Also, if you've got a song with a regularly alternating bass pattern, you can pretty much figure out the rhthym too. There are TAB symbols that you can add on the bottom of each measure to indicate beats, and therefore rnythm, but I don't see them used very much.
TAB is a great system -- as far as I can see, it has only one major drawback -- and that's taking a song from a guitar in one tuning to another. TAB is "string / tuning specific" while standard music notation would make it easier to know what to play on guitars in different tunings. (Note I DID NOT say make it easier to PLAY in different tunings.)
Regards,
Raymond |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2002 : 10:56:51 PM
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Hi Raymond,
About tab and pitch - If you go from a higher numbered fret, #5 or more on one string to the next higher open string, the pitch drops. Fools me every time. I can't think of a specific example, but I've been startled often enough. Oh, here's one, Taro Patch, full barre on 5th fret, then play open first or second string.
A program that produces both tab and notation is good for generating new tab for new tunings!  I even told one I had a 4 string guitar so I could produce uke tab. It wasn't a great success because of my not knowing where to shift the notes that had been on the 5th and 6th strings, but the program came thru. Like I said, I know zip about arranging.
Best, |
Pauline |
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