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dr. cookie
Lokahi
USA
299 Posts |
 Posted - 09/04/2007 : 6:36:33 PM
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Mahalo Leilehua . . . for beautifully demonstrating this important point.
Don |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 12:36:08 AM
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| Mahalo, Leilehua. The words of the chant...could that be where Sam Lia Kala`ainaina got his inspiration for Hi`ilawe, I wonder? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Hula Rider
Lokahi
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 06:42:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dr. cookie
Mahalo Leilehua . . . for beautifully demonstrating this important point.
Don
Mahalo nau - I love to answer questions because I learn so much that way!
Leilehua |
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Hula Rider
Lokahi
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 07:56:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Mahalo, Leilehua. The words of the chant...could that be where Sam Lia Kala`ainaina got his inspiration for Hi`ilawe, I wonder?
E aloha no,
Without actually talking with the composer, one never knows, but I don't think so. I think the chant was written during his lifetime, so it is possible he had heard it and might have known it. There are several places named "Maukele" or "Ma`ukele," and when sung, they often sound alike.
The "Maukele" in the chant is, I was taught, a lava plain in Puna which shimmers with the heat of the sun on the black lava. The "Maukele" in Hi`ilawe, I was taught, is a wetland which sparkles when the sun is shining on the wet leaves.
We pretty much know where he got the inspiration for Hi`ilawe. As I understand the story, a girl from Puna married a man who lived at Waipi`o, near the waterfalls. So the references could possibly be a pun, referencing her journey from one Maukele to another, but I don't think it inspired the song.
Her new husband was a fisherman, as well as a farmer, as were his friends and neighbors. A fisherman's wife can get lonely when he is away, and neighbors can be like gossipy birds. But all of this chatter did not change the love of the family for the girl. A skillful fisherman can take his boat through many kinds of currents. When all was said and done, everyone remained friends.
Malama pono,
Leilehua |
Edited by - Hula Rider on 09/05/2007 08:29:07 AM |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 05:49:06 AM
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Playin' catchinup here,
but for myself...
Having the big Dictionary, and one of the Submersion courses...
I still crave basic 101 stuff...phrases, idioms, colloqlial, spelling...
Idiomatic 3-5 word (more or less) that carry direct and also hidden meanings) especially as used in the traditional songs would go a long way in acquiring better understanding of what many of us pursue...songs, and the wide world inside them.
When I string together the definitions of isolated words (with multiple meanings) I can end up with pretty odd--and multiple translations--sometimes without much meaning, and usually not the original.
Language idioms and phrases might help new and old taropatchers to have a place to answer some of the very basic and perhaps recurring questions that we miss when we wander into the taropatch with "dumb" questions. I know I've asked few along the way...
"Everybody's ignorant--just about different things" --an approximation of a Will Rodgers line. |
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Hula Rider
Lokahi
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2007 : 07:00:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kapila Kane
Language idioms and phrases might help new and old taropatchers to have a place to answer some of the very basic and perhaps recurring questions that we miss when we wander into the taropatch with "dumb" questions. I know I've asked few along the way...
"Everybody's ignorant--just about different things" --an approximation of a Will Rodgers line.
I think that is an excellent idea, to develop a collection of idiomatic phrases used in Hawaiian music. Definately it would help in understanding the intent of a song to understand the poetic meaning behind a phrase. "Olelo No`eau" is an excellent resource for that.
Malama pono,
Leilehua |
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2007 : 05:29:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hula Rider:
I think that is an excellent idea, to develop a collection of idiomatic phrases used in Hawaiian music. Definately it would help in understanding the intent of a song to understand the poetic meaning behind a phrase.
I sure second that thought, Leilehua. It would be ideal if we could maybe store a file somewhere on this site, sort of like our tuning files, with such information.
As someone attempting to sing in a language I don’t really know, I’d love to see even a partial list of common phrases used in music, along with different ways they may be translated, and different ways they can be stated. How many ways have you heard a ha`ina verse begin? I’ve seen “`Auhea wale ana `oe, e …” stated at least three different ways, and with more than three translations. Both of these examples were cited earlier in this thread.
A truly comprehensive list moderated by a native speaker, as suggested earlier by Andy, might not be possible, and I wouldn’t want to impose on the language experts in this forum by continually asking, “Is this right? How about this?”
Perhaps the best we as a forum could produce might be a Wikipedia-style list, in which members post translations of common phrases they run across (hopefully from authoritative sources) and different versions of those phrases. Like Wiki, you couldn’t absolutely rely on the accuracy, but we might at least get a bigger list that way. And if we cite sources, it wouldn't exactly be the "blind leading the blind."
For myself, the best I’ve been able to do is to keep a list of such phrases when I get help from time to time from friendly and knowledgeable taropatchers (thanks, Sarah, thanks Keola D.). I’d be happy to post what I’ve found, and I’m sure others would, as well. Some of this, like the examples above, might seem simplistic to the old hands at Hawaiian music. But for us newbies, it could be pretty valuable.
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Edited by - mike2jb on 09/14/2007 06:19:55 AM |
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Hula Rider
Lokahi
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2007 : 11:40:09 AM
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Aloha Mike,
I would be happy to help out, but I'm pretty maxed out as far as forum navigation in just figuring out how to post in threads. But once it is up, I would be happy to add what I can.
Malama pono,
Leilehua |
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mokupuni
Aloha
30 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 4:24:58 PM
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| I can kokua with language when possible too. I am not a "native speaker" in the sense that 'olelo hawai'i is my first language, but it is my second. In the sense that I am "native" and speak, read, translate and compose in Hawaiian, well that's me. |
'O au iho no,
Liko Puha |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 11:45:29 PM
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Liko & Leilehua: We are honored that you have so graciously and generously offered to share your mana`o.
Thank you. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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DaKineViking
Aloha
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2007 : 08:18:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Admin
quote:
Originally posted by Bruddah Chrispy
Aloha kakou,
Would there be any interest in a forum for the Hawaiian language? There are times I have a question or observation and it would be nice to be able to chat about it, yeah?
Thanks for your post Bruddah Crispy. What do people think? You're encouraged to elaborate.
Would LOVE to particpate. Will watch posts here. WONDERFUL to see mana'o shared. Very important to perpetuate langauge and culture. Those who can teach, please do...and Mahalo in advance! |
Lona |
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