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GUke
Lokahi
188 Posts |
 Posted - 08/26/2007 : 6:03:24 PM
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One day when flipping thru "He Mele Aloha" I noticed different translations for the same Hawaiian lyric: 'Auhea wale ana 'oe.
And though most of the transalations are " where are you" or " where indeed are you", what's with the translation "oh do pay heed" as in the mele Kaua I Ka Huahua'i or Ku'u 'I'ini. And is what's with "indeed", why was it indeed necessary for that to be included?
After reading this thread, I think the language forum should focus mostly on pharases used in mele, and as a starting point explain any grammar associated. And also translations for the often used greetings and salutations by the members.
Genaro |
Genaro
Should I? Itʻs only $, and where Iʻm going itʻll burn or melt. |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2007 : 8:56:44 PM
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Don't misunderstand but some words have many meanings and auhea is one of those. If you reference Pukui Elbert dictionary you will see the numerous meanings some words have. When auhea is followed by 'wale ana 'oe' it usually means listen you or some such meaning because the verb marker 'ana' makes it a verb. the question of 'where etc' makes auhea something other than a verb. Some stative verbs followed by 'no' with a kahako over the o is usually translated 'indeed'. The closest English equivalent. It almost a word that is like an exclamation point. It intensifies the staive to a higher degree of emotion or something like that. I hope you can understand that not all Hawaiian phrases can be translated into English easily. Some translations impart the intent of the phrase and not the plain English equivalent of the words contained therein. Intensifiers can be the words 'no' 'no ho'i' and so on.
And as in the case of my signature. It means that I am merely a player (of music). |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 08/27/2007 10:57:37 AM |
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Makuakane
Aloha
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2007 : 11:33:57 PM
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Looks like the first thing that needs to be done is to add the Hawaiian font library to this site, so that all the numbers and pound signs go away.
It is nice to see people who thirst for knowledge. |
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alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 12:39:23 AM
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I voted 'ae, but I just have a ninau: You don't have to be fluent in the language to post there, do you? I'm just learning.
Mahalo nui,
'Alika |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 07:45:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Makuakane
Looks like the first thing that needs to be done is to add the Hawaiian font library to this site, so that all the numbers and pound signs go away.
It is nice to see people who thirst for knowledge.
It's not quite that easy. If you use a custom font like our "HI" fonts then all users would have to have them installed on their own machines in order to have the language displayed. having the software that runs this site support UTF-8 (Unicode) characters would be better, but I have no idea if the software and database behind it are UTF-8 ready. I've tried in the past and as configured it doesn't work. |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 08:38:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by keoladonaghy
It's not quite that easy. If you use a custom font like our "HI" fonts then all users would have to have them installed on their own machines in order to have the language displayed. having the software that runs this site support UTF-8 (Unicode) characters would be better, but I have no idea if the software and database behind it are UTF-8 ready. I've tried in the past and as configured it doesn't work.
I have looked into this and didn't quite figure out where the issue is. It may be that the database is not UTF-8 ready. I will research further as time permits. Where does the time go?!?! |
Andy |
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GUke
Lokahi
188 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 10:56:39 AM
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Mahalo Noeau,
I figured that literal translations don't make sense all the time. Just like if one were to translate "rain" which works in a song or poem ,one could be referring to a drizzle, shower or storm. And then there are those slang sayings. When I took Spanish the literal translation was "Don't drink my hair". And the English equivalent was "Don't pull my leg". In translating one sometimes needs to look at the whole. And maybe go a bit further as to what message is trying to be conveyed. I've seen a couple of times patchers asking for help when composing in Hawaiian. So another reason for language forum, shed light on possible pitfalls in translations.
Genaro |
Genaro
Should I? Itʻs only $, and where Iʻm going itʻll burn or melt. |
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ArtSap
Lokahi
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 12:11:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Makuakane
Looks like the first thing that needs to be done is to add the Hawaiian font library to this site, so that all the numbers and pound signs go away.
It is nice to see people who thirst for knowledge.
Aloha Kenneth! As I mentioned, it's always a pleasure when artists such as yourself take an interest in the discussions that take place within the patch. Mahalo for all the wonderful mele... |
Art
SF Bay Area, CA / Mililani, HI
"The real music comes from within you - not from the instrument" |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 2:18:37 PM
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| I recently read about the Hawaiian language, that since it had no written language, general terms were not used such as "weather". There would be very detailed and specific words about the winds, the rains, the cloudsd, the sea, etc., to describe very exactly what the weather was. I find that to be infinitely more conducive to poetry. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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LovinLK
Lokahi
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2007 : 07:00:29 AM
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| That is very true. And each island has different words for their weather as well. |
Lovin' Lee is my favorite pasttime!!
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Hula Rider
Lokahi
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 08:02:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by keoladonaghy
quote:
Originally posted by Makuakane
Looks like the first thing that needs to be done is to add the Hawaiian font library to this site, so that all the numbers and pound signs go away.
It is nice to see people who thirst for knowledge.
It's not quite that easy. If you use a custom font like our "HI" fonts then all users would have to have them installed on their own machines in order to have the language displayed. having the software that runs this site support UTF-8 (Unicode) characters would be better, but I have no idea if the software and database behind it are UTF-8 ready. I've tried in the past and as configured it doesn't work.
E aloha Keola! pehea?
I run in to the same problem with fonts in other forums in which I post and host. We are starting to use the following protocols when accurate Hawaiian spelling is necessary for understanding or explainations:
1) We use the apostrophy for an 'okina.
2) In sites were most users can see the underline function, we use the underline to represent the kahako.
3) In sites where the underline function is not readable by many users, or is not available, we use brackets to represent the
kahak[o].
It's somewhat time consuming and looks a bit strange, but does allow for a method of representation.
Malama pono!
Leilehua |
Edited by - Hula Rider on 09/04/2007 08:03:15 AM |
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Hula Rider
Lokahi
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 08:46:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
I recently read about the Hawaiian language, that since it had no written language, general terms were not used such as "weather". There would be very detailed and specific words about the winds, the rains, the cloudsd, the sea, etc., to describe very exactly what the weather was. I find that to be infinitely more conducive to poetry.
E aloha no,
I am wondering who the author is of that piece you read. In my own studies, I have found that the detailed and specific terminology has nothing whatsoever to do with the lack of a writing system. It has everything to do with the importance of the area of application.
I address this frequently in my lectures on Hawaiian culture and arts. Following is an excerpt from the opening of talk I gave at the May Culture Night at the Visitor Information Station on Mauna Kea:
When I was a girl, I was told in school that the Eskimo have over 30 words for snow. This was said with astonishment, as though it were something unique and amazing. But all specialized fields of knowledge have specialized vocabulary.
All languages have an extensive vocabulary for those things which are prominant in the culture. In America, transportation is hugely important. We love our cars. To move them from place to place, we do not just have "roads," we have lanes, alleys, streets, ways, broadways, highways, freeways, tracks, loops, circles, boulevards, roundabouts, drives, thoroughfares, routes, cul de sacs and many more specialized terms.
Surgeons have at least 30 words for different kinds of forceps.
Chefs have at least 30 words for different kinds of knives.
And Hawaiians have at least 30 words for different kinds of lei.
You are so correct that that specific words of great precision are infinately more conducive to poetry.
A re-reading of Shakespeare provides classic examples of that in English. As Gonzolo in fear cries out, "Now would I give a thousand furlongs of sea for an acre of barren ground, long heath, brown furze, any thing. The wills above be done! but I would fain
die a dry death.
"Heath," "furze," what evocative words! From "barren ground," he moves to a specific plaint for uncultivated wasteland, with poor coarse soil, and then to "furze" - he appeals to be set in a landscape of dry gorse rather than die at sea. Like a painter with a fine brush, he uses the detail of these words to color a picture that turns a black-painted stage into a tempestuous sea of terror and longing with their precise description of what cannot be had.
So, yes, traditional Hawaiians had a huge and detailed vocabulary for those things on which they depended closely, or with which they were intimately involved. For the winds which allowed the sailing of canoes, which brought the life-giving rains or the moisture-drinking droughts, which cleared the skies or filled them with clouds, in a culture which was dependant on farming land and sea, an extensive vocabulary was developed. But New England fishermen also have an equally extensive vocabulary of winds, and a long tradition of written language as well.
Malama pono,
Leilehua
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Edited by - Hula Rider on 09/04/2007 09:31:38 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 10:05:15 AM
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I will hunt out which book I read it in and give you the specifics. It was definitely written by a haole and the gist of it was how beautiful is the Hawaiian language and how far superior it is to the English language, but parts of it were rather condescending in tone, as well. Kind of like patting the cute little natives on top of their heads and telling them how cute they are.
Now if I could just remember which book, and who, and where did I put it....... |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Bd1
Lokahi
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 3:07:29 PM
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| Recently I responded to a ad for a Language school. The list of available studies was very long including some obscure middle European languages. No offense intended to the citizens thereof. When I asked for Hawaiian as a study they said they did not offer it and when I asked why not as Hawaii is a State and as such it should be offered they could not give any answer!!! This is a national school and personally I think it is a D__n shame! |
BD1 |
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Hula Rider
Lokahi
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 4:58:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
I will hunt out which book I read it in and give you the specifics. It was definitely written by a haole and the gist of it was how beautiful is the Hawaiian language and how far superior it is to the English language, but parts of it were rather condescending in tone, as well. Kind of like patting the cute little natives on top of their heads and telling them how cute they are.
Now if I could just remember which book, and who, and where did I put it.......
Mahalo! I am very interested is seeing who would publish such a thing!
I still get that condescention to some extent - and I was subjected to a great deal of it when I was younger - people coming up to me after a show and literally patting me on the head, fingering my hair, my lei, my jewelry. I've begun tying my hair up immediately after shows before I talk to people because so many want to touch it.
Ill-bred people come from all walks of life.
I would agree that the Hawaiian language is far superior to English for conveying the culture and heritage of Hawai`i, for describing the cycles of life in the tropics, and for expressing Polynesian thought patterns.
But in my opinion, you really can't beat English when you want to explain the workings of a computer or motorcycle transmission, when you want to describe the ebb and flow of life in temperate islands, or you want to express English thought patterns.
To say one language is "better" than another is to say that the thought patterns of that people is "better." and it is unfair to compare the best of one culture to the worst of another.
It is sad when people feel they cannot honor one culture's thought without denigrating the thought of another.
How intensely evocative William Carlos Williams was:
so much depends
upon
a red wheel
barrow
glazed with rain
water
beside the white
chickens.
Also evocative, but in an entirely different way, are the words of "Aia i Haili,"
`Upu a`e ka mana`o li`a i ka nani
I ka papa lohi lua a`o Maukele
`O ka lohi mai kâu e Wahinekapu
Eia a`e ka makani a he Pu`ulena
The chant is much longer, but I especially love the imagery of these verses -
Entrancing thoughts in mind of the beauty
Of the doubly shimmering plains of Maukele
Shimmering there are you, Sacred Woman
Comes hither the Pu`ulena wind
I can try to translate it, but really, the only way to truly have my haumana (students) understand this image is to see the shimmering black fields of pahoehoe undulating mile after mile, heat waves making distant images ripple and dance, to feel the direct blaze of the sun, to be warmed from below by the baking lava, and then to feel the chill of the wind suddenly raise goosebumps through the sweat caused by the sun, the heat, and your walking, coming suddenly into the presence of something divine.
Very different languages, each with its efficiency and strengths in different areas, but neither is better or worse.
Malama pono,
Leilehua |
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