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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
 Posted - 08/28/2006 : 03:23:03 AM
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And the debate goes on...
I read a book about the music industry 1890-1910 and the uproar was about how royalties could be collected from the new fangled recording industry. The ancient maxim "You shall not muzzle the ox as it threshes the grain" applies. The teachers, authors and publicists all deserve their recognition. But then again, music is part of being human, like breathing.
As for learning styles, it's good to try different ways from time to time. Play while looking at yourself in the mirror. Try playing in a dark room. Work on building your memory, you'll be surprised at how well you can do. As a lazy human, I know the appeal of the "easy way", but like Ranger Doug Green of "Riders in the Sky" says, "It's not the Cowboy Way." Music is hard work, it is after all, a "discipline". I always tell folks that you'll never play it as good as you can hear it because as your ability grows, so does your ear, thus progress. My Dad told me after years of playing professionally (Scandihoovian and European accordion) that music was really meant to have fun with your friends. See you on the 17th, Hili. Aloha, Kory |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 08:50:43 AM
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First of all, the link to my list is wrong. It should be http://www.patchett.com/kihoalu/tarosongs.htm
Second, I think most of you are missing the point. Copyright law is not designed to prevent anything from being shared, it's designed to protect it from being stolen. What's the difference? Sharing involves receiving permission from the owner, stealing doesn't. If an artist wants to protect their work and receive income from any reproductions of it (and tablature is definitely a reproduction) then they have that right. If they choose instead to encourage others to reproduce it freely then they have that right as well. But the important thing to note is that it is the artist's right to choose which direction to take and the public's responsibility to honor that choice. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 08/28/2006 08:51:17 AM |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 09:28:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cpatch
First of all, the link to my list is wrong. It should be http://www.patchett.com/kihoalu/tarosongs.htm
Oh man, one of these days, I'll learn how this forum works. Made the fix. |
Andy |
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Dominator
Lokahi
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 06:35:35 AM
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Cpatch wrote: “Sharing involves receiving permission from the owner, stealing doesn't.”
I do agree with this statement and, in most cases, I do request permission from the artist prior to posting a tab on my site. I didn’t start out that way 6 years ago when I first started doing tabs but in the last few years I have been requesting permission. One artist I have not been able to connect with is Troy Fernandez. So if anyone has an email for him could you send it to me or just have him contact me. I would appreciate it.
The part of this discussion that does chap my arss is the argument that the artist is losing money because of the tabs being posted. This is true if an artist has published a book of his/her arrangements in tablature and then someone takes that book and inputs the songs into a tab program like the one I use and then posts them on the Internet for the masses to have access. I see that as a clear violation. But if an artist hasn’t published any tab books and I create my own interpretations of the songs and post them on my site, how does that deprive the artist of any revenues? Everyday I get emails from people and many of them buy the CDs and/or DVDs of the artists whose tabs I feature on the site. I can’t say how much revenue is generated but at least some money is headed their way.
Now, I’m sure someone is thinking about the fact the artist might be thinking of publishing a book in the future. I don’t see how having my interpretations posted in advance would effect sales that much. I think many people would still buy the books to have “official” works to learn from. That includes me. If Jake, Herb Jr., Bryan T., James Hill or anyone else publishes a tab book I’m gonna first in line to purchase.
I realize most of this discussion has been about the “large” guitar tabs sites and hopefully a small site like mine isn’t on anybody’s radar. I do see their point because I have visited some of the PT sites and a huge number of the tabs are taken directly from the magazines and tab books and then input into the program and the person takes the credit for it. That’s what caused the problem in my opinion. If the only tabs posted on these sites were truly the work of the person submitting there wouldn’t be near the number of tabs out there to draw attention and most would be very inaccurate to say the least.
Dominator
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www.dominator.ukeland.com
www.myspace.com/dominatoruke
Practice makes Practice Perfect! |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 09:01:07 AM
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If I could just take a miniscule detour from the discussion...
Dominator, you produce really great tabs. I have real difficulty with the standard notation subtleties which you do perfectly, such as note ties across bars, rests in the upper melody, intermediate notations, tempo changes. Congratulations.
Now back to our regularly scheduled spat...
...Reid |
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cmdrpiffle
`Olu`olu
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 12:28:36 PM
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Haven't we seen this thread somewhere before?
Kill tab. All of it.
My $0.02 anyway |
my Poodle is smarter than your honor student |
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Hilinai
Akahai
USA
88 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 10:02:15 PM
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Aloha,
Now I know for sure that some of you don't get it. Why would anyone kill a form of teaching and learning that works for some people? So does your argument apply to all written music in note form? Should all of it be killed. I wonder if this argument was the same when written music was invented? Isn't tab just another way to write music down for others and future generations to learn? I think yours is a very foolish and selfish view and I think this idea is just short of burning books just cause you don't like 'em.
Futhermore, Just because you're some kind of professional or its easy for you or you have access to teachers or money for lessons or whatever, you feel you should limit the way others learn to play? Amazing.
btw - like I said before I don't use tab yet, but now that I have some refs I will try it (thanks for the website Dominator - i looked at it for a few minutes and it looks awesome! Still don't know how to use tab though.), never hurts to try something new - and whats wrong with that - btw - I don't plan to make any money on this - also I have and plan to buy more material from whoever is selling it and I hope the artist are getting compensated and I'd even buy stuff from the original artist if possible.
What a crazy argument.
Aloha,
Hili
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 03:37:50 AM
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Eh, Hili. Not erybody akamai an' den even akamai folks not alla time. People just want due recognition for their efforts and accomplishments.
No fo'get: Tell t'anks. |
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cmdrpiffle
`Olu`olu
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 09:40:48 AM
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Ohh!
Just read previous posts.
....scampers off to formulate reply |
my Poodle is smarter than your honor student |
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cmdrpiffle
`Olu`olu
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 10:11:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hilinai
Aloha,
Now I know for sure that some of you don't get it. Why would anyone kill a form of teaching and learning that works for some people? So does your argument apply to all written music in note form? Should all of it be killed. I wonder if this argument was the same when written music was invented? Isn't tab just another way to write music down for others and future generations to learn? I think yours is a very foolish and selfish view and I think this idea is just short of burning books just cause you don't like 'em.
Futhermore, Just because you're some kind of professional or its easy for you or you have access to teachers or money for lessons or whatever, you feel you should limit the way others learn to play? Amazing.
btw - like I said before I don't use tab yet, but now that I have some refs I will try it (thanks for the website Dominator - i looked at it for a few minutes and it looks awesome! Still don't know how to use tab though.), never hurts to try something new - and whats wrong with that - btw - I don't plan to make any money on this - also I have and plan to buy more material from whoever is selling it and I hope the artist are getting compensated and I'd even buy stuff from the original artist if possible.
What a crazy argument.
Aloha,
Hili
Aloha,
Actually, I do get it. My 'kill all tab' comment was tongue in cheek to be sure.
Many of us have had this discussion on this forum, and in person, numerous times. My comment was meant to show that if there wasn't tablature (kill all tab) then we wouldn't be having this discussion...again.
That was my primary point. My secondary point (thinly veiled) was and continues to be that tablature can be a crutch. I can name numerous people who continue to attempt to drone out the same note for note copy of someone elses' music in the quest to essentially...copy it exactly. What's the point?
Tablature and noted music certainly have their place. Often very useful for figuring out a way through a difficult passage or part.
My issue is when folks never progress beyond playing someone elses music exactly, as opposed to actually hearing themselves and making it their own. That is where the ever frantic obsession to procure 'TAB' becomes the crutch.
That said, I also realize that does not apply to everyone who uses tab.
I am a professional, but not in music. I have both adequate money, and a reasonable access to teachers. I've never used their services. 'It' didn't come any easier or harder for me than anyone else. It's a matter of priority. If hearing the aloha come from the strings drives your soul, you will figure out a way to make that happen. If you have an agenda, and want to sound like someone else, you will succeed at that as well. Like most things, it becomes a balance between many avenues to get what you want. My original point was directed at those who never get beyond the 'trying to sound like someone else, exactly'. That's where the crutch comment comes from.
You think my idea is "foolish and selfish" and is just "short of burning books because I don't like them"?
That is a pretty strong characterization from someone I've never met.
Cheers,
Mike |
my Poodle is smarter than your honor student |
Edited by - cmdrpiffle on 08/30/2006 10:13:27 AM |
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Mainkaukau
Lokahi
USA
245 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 8:44:27 PM
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| This tab topic has made me wonder. Why do we play? To make a buck? To be recognized in a crowd? To be treated special? To show off? To be in vogue? To create a niche group? To relax? To play for the intrinsic value of playing? You can have all the free or registered tabs in the world but you still got to practice but for what end? A woman let me cut in line at the Kewalo lunchwagon once because she recognized me as the guy who performed at her mom's old folk's home. I did feel kind of special. Twinkle twinkle little hoku... |
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MentoBuggah
Aloha
22 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2006 : 04:35:49 AM
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| In the 60's you hadn't expected someone to enter your garage and demand royalties for songs your friends were showing you how to play. Sharing over the web is just the natural evolution of kids getting together to jam and teach each other licks. IMHO, it's up to the creators and producers of songs, tab, etc. to develop security mechanisms to keep up with technology and not to rely on already-stretched-to-thin law enforcement. |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2006 : 12:35:45 PM
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quote:
IMHO, it's up to the creators and producers of songs, tab, etc. to develop security mechanisms to keep up with technology and not to rely on already-stretched-to-thin law enforcement.
???? Sure, I'll be happy to do that. "This TAB will self-destruct 30 seconds after ya play thru it."
BOOM!!!!!
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 03:35:11 AM
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| Before written music (real kind and tab--the musical staff is based on lute tablature), folks learned by watching and playing. Tab and notation are tools, nothing more. Last time I went to the hardware store, I had to pay. Sometimes a friend will let me borrow a tool. Each time due recognition is fitting, money to the store, thanks and reciprocal kindness to the friend. I just listen hard and observe thru heavy lenses. |
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MentoBuggah
Aloha
22 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 04:47:04 AM
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quote:
???? Sure, I'll be happy to do that. "This TAB will self-destruct 30 seconds after ya play thru it."
Better than Mo and Vinny showing up at my house at midnight... |
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