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makotom
Aloha
USA
11 Posts |
 Posted - 09/08/2006 : 3:16:13 PM
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Hello,
I have been playing mostly in Taropatch or G wahine so far but I am thiking of start learning C Mauna Loa tuning (CGEGAE) since I hear many songs in that tuning sound so sweet and distinctive.
My question is about string tension and impact to the neck since 4th string is tuned up to E. I realize other strings are tuned down so I guess overall tension is lower than standard tuning. Do I have to be concerned about the impact to neck of my guitar? Should I loosen strings everytime I am done playing?
Makoto
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Makoto Morise |
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makotom
Aloha
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 2:47:36 PM
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JWN,
Thank you.
Makoto |
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Makoto Morise |
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slkho
`Olu`olu
740 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 09:00:18 AM
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JWN is correct, although it is not a bad practice as far as guitar maintaince goes, to "detune" your guitar after every usage...I do.
Whenever I am not using one of my guitars I always take out all the tension in the strings, as well as a good wipe down of the keys, strings, etc... its just a good practice to add longevity to your instrument. It is repetitive I know, but that's what I do. I see many a person with great guitars that are quite expensive, but they fail to do the minimum upkeep on their guitars; lot's dust, hand/finger oil residue, and "other" stuff.
Take care of your intrument I say. Slack key players have a reputation of a close bond with their guitars.
~rik |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 09:29:59 AM
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Rik,
I disagree. I don't think there is a specific benefit to loosening the strings after every use. I think the converse may be true. The guitar neck is designed/presetressed to accommodate the string tension. Loosening and tightening may put excessive movement stress on the neck on some guitars -- one reason you used to get advice not to take all strings off at the same time when changing strings. Most new guitars this should not be a real problem. However, constant changing string tension put excessive wear/friction on the strings at the point they cross the nut. This wear/friction will cause the strings to break down faster, lose tone, and break. If you mainly play in one tuning, leave it in that tuning. If you play in many different tunings add a lubricant at the nut (graphite from pencil lead) or "nut juice".
I DO AGREE that you should wipe down your guitar and strings after every use. Just as you should keep the guitar in its case with a humidifier to keep the wood from drying out and the soundboard from developing cracks.
~Mika |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 09:47:30 AM
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Rik,
I am sure you care for your guitars as much as anyone, but could I get you to consider a couple of alternatives? These are things that luthiers have told me and that work in practice.
Loosening and tightening strings often, actually puts stress on the strings, as they "take a set". That is, at a particular tension they will deform somewhat, they "want" to be at that tension and will try to be back in that state all on their own. Nylon strings are the most extreme example of this, but metal strings do the same kind of thing. If I tune a nylon 1st string to E, say, and then drop it to D, the string will actually tighten up by itself to try be back at E. Conversely, if originally at D, and then tightened to E, the string will slacken back towards D. As I said this is an extreme example, but metal will do this to some extent, too. This constant, repeated deformation shortens string life. We have most often experienced this with tuning the 3rd string from G to F# to play in double slack. The 3rd string will break quite often, and it breaks just as often when loosening as when tightening. How much string life is acceptable, is up to you.
In addition, and maybe more important, the guitar's neck will bend into a bow (for proper relief) when the strings are tightened and then flatten out - sometimes into a back bow, when the strings are loosened. This is very ungood for the guitar neck. It happens every time we change strings to every one of our 10 (soon to be 9 :-) guitars and is quite obvious. Doing this about once a month or so to change strings is no big deal, but if done every day, could have some unfortunate effects - especially at the neck/body joint and sometimes is a cause for a "hump" forming the fretboard at the 14th fret.
Now, I am perfectly happy to have you do whatever you want with your guitars, and wiping down after playing is what we do, too.
Anyway, consider this another data point.
...Reid |
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Bd1
Lokahi
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 2:06:51 PM
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| "Ungood" Gad,I love it when we get technical!!! |
BD1 |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 2:50:44 PM
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Showing my age, I guess. "Ungood" is Viet Nam era lingo. Sorta like: "I took a frag. That's ungood".
You must be young.
...Reid |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 3:36:12 PM
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| better than "in deep kimchee" |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Menpachi Man
Lokahi
274 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 4:45:22 PM
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eh brah! wadda scoop? no knock kim chee! da buggah some ono if you make 'em right. An sometime you can even fry em wid smoke pork. (no take 'em fishing, da obakeh come out)
On a serious note. What humidity do you keep your guitar at in a case? How you you keep the humidity constant? Is there a special guitar humidifier?
Mahalos for any answers. |
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Menpachi Man
Lokahi
274 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 5:01:31 PM
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| Okay Mika ele, sorry, I should have googled it first before asking. There are several brands of guitar humidifiers. My question now would be, what brand do you use? Thanks. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 02:33:47 AM
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We have several different kinds of in-case humidifiers. The best of the 4 kinds we have is the Planet Waves (D`Addario) device. You inject water into the foam contained in a plastic cover that has holes in it. Then, shake out the excess, if any, and wipe it down. Then you insert it into the sound hole where it links up to the strings, and is suspended inside without touching the guitar.
You ought to have a hygrometer in the case too, so you know when to put more water in, or take the humidifier out, so that you don't overdo it (guitars can swell). None are terribly accurate, but the Radio Shack device is about +- 5%, and costs about $20. We also have another brand, a small black one that you see commonly (don't remember the brand) and it reads consistantly high.
The best thing to have is a "whole house" humidifier that puts water into the air in the house. For $100, we bought one from Sears and it does the job pretty well. We use it only during the Winter when it gets very dry here (about 10%). We have to fill it every day and put a bacteriastat in the water, but that is not really a problem. It automatically goes on and off to maintain a constant humidity.
45%-50% RH is a good target.
...Reid
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Edited by - Reid on 09/12/2006 02:35:08 AM |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 06:54:51 AM
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Menpachi Man,
Taylor guitars has some very nice online videos that demonstrate the effects humidity have on wood guitars. Wood is very porous and its shape is naturally affected by the internal water content. I found the videos fascinating and educational. Once you watch them you will have more respect and understanding about how humidity can affect your instrument's sound, playability, and potential to cause damage.
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/features/woods/humidity.aspx
I have the Planet Waves devices Reid described and find them to work well. I use them in my ukuleles. I also have the devices Bob Taylor uses in the videos which look like surgical tubing with holes and with a sponge inside. I use them in my guitars. Use what you can easily find in your local guitar shop.
Essentially, I keep the moist tubes and devices in the guitars and ukuleles when I am not playing them. When I go to play them, I pull the tube out and check it. If it is still wet I leave it alone. If it is bone dry, I soak it in water, wring it out a little, wipe it off, and put it back in the instrument after I am done playing. That is the simple way to protect the instrument. If the instrument's wood is dry, it will soak up the moisture given off by the humidifier tube. If the wood is just right, or wet, the tube stays moist.
I live near the beach in Southern California so my home is usually about 50% humidity year round. We don't use an air conditioner -- never that hot. And we don't use the heater much in winter -- never that cold. So the house's temperature systems don't muck around too much with the natural humidity. It is OK to leave the instruments out. If your home gets dry due to the heater or air conditioner you should not leave your instruments out without a humidifier. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 07:53:56 AM
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Another humidifier option if you're in need of a case is to get a HumiCase. These hardshell cases come with two small humidifying "pods" that fit inside the case. My experience is they work just fine and require minimal maintenance.
Here's a link for where to find them - MusiciansFriend.com
Larry
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slkho
`Olu`olu
740 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 11:31:22 AM
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...Thanks Mike & Reid for your input.
So, what your saying is that for my #1 guitar, (my playing guitar, I actually have play & practice ones) I can leave it in say, G-tuning when not in use, or in its case at all times, which would be "better" for my guitar in terms of string memory, and guitar neck health????
.... I'd like to add that when I "detune" my guitars, its not all the way to flimsy tension, just 1/4-to-half a key turn.
~slkho |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 1:18:23 PM
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Rik,
From our (Sarah and me) experience, that small a tuning drop won't hurt your guitar at all, but it will affect your string life, *somewhat*. If you are happy with what you are doing, I am happy, too. But, I don't think it is necessary. That is kinda like taking more than 1000mg/day Vitamin C to make your heart healthier. Good, but it makes for expensive shishi :-)
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 09/12/2006 1:23:29 PM |
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Menpachi Man
Lokahi
274 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 1:23:28 PM
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Mika ele, Reid, Larry:
Mahalo nui for the information. This site has an enormous wealth of information. I spent the last month reading a lot of the posts. So many professionals here too.
I never paid much attention to humidity but lucked out due my dislike of dry air (having grown up in Hawaii). Mika, the video was very educational. The demos of improper humidity was quite facinating and a real eye-opener for me. I am going to invest in the Planet Waves devices and a hygrometer since I gaining an appetite for more expensive guitars better sounding guitars, an increase in practice time (without beer).
I don't know if this is the proper forum, maybe better suited to "da kine music gear", but does anyone pick guitars based on the top-wood grain? I always have a penchant for very tight, straight top wood grain, the logic being that they are denser, stronger, and have better sustain?
Again, thanks for answering the humidity question!
Glenn
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