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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
 Posted - 09/13/2006 : 2:46:05 PM
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I go by the maxim
What's better is what sounds better to me when someone else plays it. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Menpachi Man
Lokahi
274 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 3:12:01 PM
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Mika ele:
You are da bestest! Thanks. Next time I go to the guitar shop, I going ask da guy there to play da guitah and listen to da tone. Mahalos! |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 5:10:27 PM
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| When I had my guitar made, the luthier let me play a few guitars with different wood combinations. I could hear the differences among the types of wood, but grain was not discussed. |
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Menpachi Man
Lokahi
274 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 5:08:21 PM
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I found an interesting website which discusses grain and related tonal subtleties:
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/ToneWoods/tonewoods1.html
It basically says that it depends on the individual's preference for the tonal quality that they are looking for. It also has some discussion on grain runouts.
Another site: Answered my question about the grain tightness:
http://www.cumpiano.com/Home/Articles/Articles/howtobuy.html
<Excerpt>
If you have a new or used solid-wood guitar, what are the quality "signposts" to look for? Let's look closely at the soundboard. Take note of the fine comb of grain lines ("reeds") that travel lengthwise over the top. The tightness, or density of this grain pattern, contrary to popular misconception, is NOT the definitive sign of superior-quality tonewood. Acoustic quality derives from superior stiffness coupled with light weight. This occurs without regard to the number of reeds per inch. Far better evidence of a superior, well-selected soundboard is the UNIFORMITY in the grain pattern and the presence of medullary rays. Medullary rays (also called "silk") are cross-linking fibers that run perpendicularly across the grain lines. They impart not only a beautiful luminescence to the top, but superior strength and resilience as well. They are found in their richest profusion on the very best quarter-sawn soundboards.
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2006 : 2:35:15 PM
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| "bear claw" spruce is an example of a soundboard wood with "medularry rays" |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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basilking
Lokahi
124 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2006 : 7:38:03 PM
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The Universal String Calculator - http://www.kennaquhair.com/ustc.htm
can be a useful tool in determining the tension of a given set of strings in different tunings. I change tunings fairly often on most of my guitars and find little impact on string life. I learned [from Ledward] a good while back to hang a fatter big E on gtrs I'm going to tune down on, but leave the others pretty much stock.
Older instruments can [in my experience] handle medium guage strings quite well, but it depends on the bracing. On my [fan-braced] '20 0-18K I use xtra-lights with a bigger low E, and never crank that one up to standard tuning. "Most all my other guitars are x-braced for steel strings, and the only "tension" problem I encounter is my own at wishing I could play better... |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 12:18:42 AM
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I too have had concerns with tunings that have "anti-slack", higher tension...]
i first went to CGEGCE with my Goodall...which uses light gauge, while on Maui with a Cyril class...
some concerns with a high desert, dry climate, light bracing guitar--in a high humidity and high salt air environment...but no problem...but returned to taropatch after class...
On a cheaper guitar, an F,Bb, C F A D pulled up a poorly repaired bridge...and my phobia was born...
A recent post about Makana's How'd ya do" in F,C,E, G,C,E has not been tried yet..
possilby with exta light gauge on the raised...or with comporable intervals, lower and add capo...I would love to try it, but not at the expense of a good guitar.
David Wilcox goes in and out of C, dadF#ad, others, back and forth in seconds continuously...
While it's nice to 'stay put' for stability of tuning, it depends on the guitar...
mine has a stupendous neck, but the light bracing has limits as well as tonal benefits...and concerns me for anti-slack tunings!
This was a custom build, for a lady who probably didn't do too many wacked out tunings...
but I want to do some of the less traditional, and occassionally "un-slack" tunings.
any other thoughts on safe ways to approach F,C,E, G,C,E?
Bb Wahine (Bb,F, C,F, A, D and other explorations?
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 12:27:39 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Kapila Kane
I too have had concerns with tunings that have "anti-slack", higher tension...]
i first went to CGEGCE with my Goodall...which uses light gauge, while on Maui with a Cyril class...
some concerns with a high desert, dry climate, light bracing guitar--in a high humidity and high salt air environment...but no problem...but returned to taropatch after class...
On a cheaper guitar, an F,Bb, C F A D pulled up a poorly repaired bridge...and my phobia was born...
A recent post about Makana's How'd ya do" in F,C,E, G,C,E has not been tried yet..
possilby with exta light gauge on the raised...or with comporable intervals, lower and add capo...I would love to try it, but not at the expense of a good guitar.
David Wilcox goes in and out of C, dadF#ad, others, back and forth in seconds continuously...
While it's nice to 'stay put' for stability of tuning, it depends on the guitar...
My Goodall has a strong, stable, stupendous neck, but the light bracing has limits as well as tonal benefits...and concerns me for anti-slack tunings!
This was a custom build, for a lady who probably didn't do too many wacked out tunings...
but I want to do some of the less traditional, and occassionally "un-slack" tunings.
any other thoughts on safe ways to approach F,C,E, G,C,E?
Bb Wahine (F,Bb, C,F, A, D and other explorations?
Daniel Ho mentions the useful range of application for tunings is usually +- a minor third...but not sure if raising anything a minor third is such a good idea for the instruments without lighter strings or other adaptions.
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 12:33:28 AM
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| redundant replay omitted |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 07:00:28 AM
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quote:
any other thoughts on safe ways to approach F,C,E, G,C,E?
Of course you can always tune the same intervals a couple of steps lower, say Eb,Bb,D,F,Bb,D. If you need the higher pitch then just capo on the 2nd fret.
Another, more scientific way, is to guage your strings for the desired pitch. I made a calculator that runs in MathCad (but it could be done in Excel as well), that calculates the optimum string guage. The inputs to the equation are the desired tension (typically 15-30 pounds for a steel string), the desired open pitch, and the density and spring modulus of steel (the wound strings have a diffent density). These last two (more esoteric parameters) are constants and can be gotten from tables or carefully measured. This is the way that these things (guitars) should be designed from an engineering perspective, and there is nothing wrong with a little re-engineering!
I have bought custom string sets with the above calculated optimal guages and it does make a definite playablity and tonal difference.
It will cost you about 50%-100% more to buy individual strings rather than packaged sets.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 09/30/2006 12:09:01 PM |
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 09:42:46 AM
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Konabob,
That link sends me to the ChordHouse string TUNING and chord diagram.
(By the way, this is the site I use to make all of my chord charts)
I do not see any string TENSION mentioned on that
site. Is there a little button somewhere I am not seeing?
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 10:56:43 AM
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There are a bunch of string tension calculators out there. One is at:
http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html
It starts out in metric and a funny string size set, but it is easy to modify by following the directions. It honestly says that the result will be a "pretty good" approximation.
...Reid |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2006 : 05:33:08 AM
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I need to clear up my previous statement about "+ or - a minor third"...
being from memory, it was suspect. While driving I thought about what I'd said, and realized...it was faulty recall.
Daniel Ho and Steve Sanos in Chapter 4, page 13 of the unfortunately out of print--"Contemporary SLG" state:
TENSION
"The guitar funtions optimally in standard tuning: E,A,D,G,B,E. The scale length, fret placement, action, bracing, truss rod, and body size are all designed to maximize tone, intonation, and playability at these pitches. When you tighten and/or loosen strings, the delicate balance of the guitar is disrupted. The intonation starts to suffer, the action becomes either too low, casing strings to buzz against the frets, or too high, making the guitar difficult to play. When choosing your pitches, it is probably best to not exceed a minor third below the standard pitch of a string, or a major second above. Though not necessary, a possible strategy might be to raise some pitches above the standard tuning and lower others below. This will keep the overall tension of the guitar strings similar to that for which it was designed."
Of course, there are specially built instruments, sting gauge adaptions, and other ways for us to stretch, or unstretch the truths about tension...
When Daniel/Steve publish a new book (Daniel mentioned it was in the works), I hope they keep a great deal of the opening chapters information intact. While it was based around his "Kilauea" tuning, and his style, which may be considered by some to be outside the tradition...it is logical, musical, and it offers great ideas and info on many aspects of music, practice, arrangement, history, etc., and was beautifully done.
Why do so many great resources go OOP?
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
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