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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
 Posted - 01/25/2007 : 09:52:46 AM
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Here’s the situation: I’m a (late) beginner with 18 months of slack-key experience so far, all in Taro Patch tuning. I got Mark Nelson’s new PDF book with CD and it has given me the itch to try learning another tuning (or two). I’ve tried to read up on other tunings, looked at comments on this board, even developed some of my own opinions, about what is the best choice for the next tuning to learn. Most of them seem to have pros and cons:
Double slack (G major 7th):
Pros: just one fret away from Taro Patch but yet a very different sound (to my ear), Ozzie’s choice for the “next step” in his book.
Cons: can be limiting, fewer easy chord choices.
Drop C (Leonard’s C):
Pros: just two frets away from Taro Patch, opens up key of C, more versatile than double slack, Ozzie’s choice for step three in his book.
Cons: too much like Taro Patch—why not try another C tuning like Gabby’s, Atta’s, C Wahine?
F Wahine:
Pros: cool sound, very different from TP, lots of tabs available.
Cons: all the tabs seem to be from Keola and Mark. Does anyone else even play this?
Standard tuning:
Pros: most versatile (?)
Cons: but I wanna play slack key.
Anybody here willing to offer an opinion? I’d like to hear it, even if the opinion is just “Forget alternate tunings until you’re more proficient in Taro Patch,” or even “Quit worrying—just pick one and play!”
Thanks for any feedback.
-Mike
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Edited by - mike2jb on 01/25/2007 09:54:06 AM |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 10:16:32 AM
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Look... If you are very good then you can play anything in any tuning.
Me... I'm not very good and probably never will be, but I still make progress.
I have played in TaroPatch so long that I have forgotten most all I ever learned in standard. I found it much easier to play along with folks on Ukes (and others who like to play a lot in C) by just dropping the low string. This is quick and easy to do during a Kanikapila whereas if I try to change to C Maunaloa for instance, the tune is already over before I finish tuning! With a capo on the 5th I have easy access to the Keys of G and C in TaroPatch, and C and F in dropped C. For any other keys I just try to find the chords in that key on the fretboard, which are the same shapes except for the lowest string.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 01/25/2007 1:17:48 PM |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 11:59:48 AM
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Mike,
How about....just pick a piece you really like, first off, and that you'd really like to know how to play, and then start getting familiar with the tuning it is in?
That is mostly how I wandered into other tunings.
aloha,
Sarah
P.S. Personally I don't think Drop C is too much like Taro Patch, rather, I saw it as having a leg up with fretboard positions when learning about Drop C, plus there are plenty C type moves to do in Drop C that I seldom encounter in Taropatch. And your bass picking pattern is going to be different, so your thumb has to learn new tricks.
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Edited by - Sarah on 01/25/2007 12:03:59 PM |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 1:01:13 PM
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Actually, yours is a very common question.
However, your pros and cons debate clouds the issue. Here's why: open tunings developed because they work. They each lend a unique new voice to the guitar, and they each bring new challenges to the guitarist.
Also, just cuz something is Tabbed or not doesn't have a lot to do with how it is used in the real world. Cindy Combs plays tons in G6th; save for one thing Keola did in the Green bbok I've never seen anything tabbed in it. Oh yeah, Drizzle, but that's not slack key. If F wahine speaks to you, then you'll want to play in it. And that is all that matters.
Most slack key players stick to a couple of tunings for the bulk of their repertoire and keep one or two speciality tunings for those times they want something unique.
Taropatch is by no means a beginner's tuning, just ask Led or Ozzie or Kevin Brown.... Take the time you need to really get to know it. Can you tune to G taropatch and play in C? D? F? Bb? The answer in all cases is yes.
Nor is Double Slack just like Taropatch save for the lowered third string. It is completely unique in how you approach the guitar. Ditto Drop C; although you can use some of what you know from Taropatch, it's really a whole different tuning in the way you use your thumb, the chord shapes, slurs, etc etc etc.
Keola's C and F wahine a lot are far closer in how they work than the first three tunings you mentioned, yet they take massive amounts of string twisting to move from one to the other. D major tuning is "sorta" like Taropatch, but it works in ways all its own. D wahine is another that's in a class of its own. Maunaloa? C all the way?? And so on.
So maybe the best advice is the same that Sara gave you: find a song that speaks to your heart and learn it, regardless of the tuning. But don't get hung up on learning a dozen tuning just cuz they are written down somewhere.
It's about the music, not string intervals.
Happy playing!
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 1:28:49 PM
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I would say Drop C is the next handiest thing to have in your arsenal. It gives you two keys in which to sing, so that covers most songs. It's the yin to the yang of G tuning in that the V chord is open in Drop C whereas the I chord is open in Taropatch. You can reproduce the sound of Maunaloa in Drop C, (except the open 6th chord) thereby avoiding the complexity of that tuning.
My 2 cents.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Fingerpickin
Lokahi
117 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 2:26:51 PM
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Mike,
I agree with Sarah. Personally, I'd go with drop C and learn Hiilawe and other classics in this tuning so you're more comfortable in this key and with some of the songs played at every kanikapila.
However, probably the best advice is to find a song you really wish to learn and use that tuning for your next song. The best way to familiarize yourself with any given tuning is to just learn repertoire in that tuning, and the rest will happen naturally.
The stuff in Ozzies book, by the way, is really good. One of the things I like to do is take one of those songs, like Moelehu for example, and just improvise it, add on to it, and personalize it. Not only is it fun but its a great way to solidify your fretboard skills.
Oh, and one more thing---one of my favorite songs to play, even after several years of slack, is still "Namaka's Mele," the last song in Ozzies book. Man, that one is a hoot and to my ears, really sounds great.
Good luck and have fun wiht it!
-Lance |
"Hey Lance, try watch." -Ozzie |
Edited by - Fingerpickin on 01/25/2007 2:27:15 PM |
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 3:20:30 PM
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Wow, thanks for the advice, Lawrence, Sarah, Mark, Jesse and Lance.
I had not considered what keys might be most commonly used in a kanikapila or how hard it might be to get to those keys in different tunings. My modus operandi up to now has been, basically, to transpose everything to G (even Hi`ilawe) and use a capo if necessary. A useful approach so far, if somewhat limiting.
Sarah’s advice rings true for me, as it did for some of you. So far it’s been much easier for me to learn a song I like than to learn the song that’s just the “next one on the list.”
Mark: it’s now after work, my shoes are off, my guitar is in D major, and I’m doing serious damage to “Pua Lena.” We’ll see how it goes. Now if I can just reproduce the sound of waves in the background of this song on the CD . . . |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 5:20:27 PM
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So much about asking for advice....
...you are not even in any of the tunings you asked about!! 
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 01/25/2007 5:21:41 PM |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 5:37:56 PM
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Picky, picky :) :) :)
Never did learn how to use them emockticons |
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 7:48:27 PM
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Well, Lawrence, you're right and I don't think you're so picky  .
I'm just following Sarah's advice and choosing a song I like, regardless of the tuning.
However, I think I will also have to learn to drop that low Taro Patch string to C, as you do, because I'm very much in favor of "quick and easy" and I'd like to be able to play along with folks with ukes. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 04:06:18 AM
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When playing in C, I just leave the guitar in taropatch and play from the 5th fret. This allows for II-V-I vamps using the lowest D and low G strings before going back to the 5th fret for C.
Prudent use of a capo helps for key changes. |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 07:42:45 AM
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Well RJ....
Ya know wee's gotta use em emoh-teak-cons
ev'ry once-in-a-whiles ta see if we caan
roust ole' piffle outta dem woods.
 !!!!!
( apologies for the obtuse post )
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 08:00:16 AM
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I would add that the sixth string can tolerate many back and forth retunings when going from G tuning to drop C, whereas the first and second strings don't last very long if you're retuning often.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 08:13:19 AM
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Jesse is right, but I would add the 3rd string, G, which is a problem on every kind of guitar, including classicals ( slightly different problem there, though). That string is very near the breaking point at G and Sarah and I have even had it snap on slacking it to F#. It isn't a matter of sharp edges on tuners or nut or bridge - it just goes in the middle. And it doesn't matter which brand of strings, either. It is very scary when a string snaps like that, and we have been lashed once or twice. Mostly, Sarah keeps a guitar or two in Double Slack permanently (although it is sometimes easier just to do it on the guitar in hand and take the consequences).
...Reid |
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 10:22:37 AM
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Ouch!
Now I have to see if I can fit a hockey mask in my gig bag. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2007 : 04:46:28 AM
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| Make sure the hockey mask goes with all your aloha shirts. I personally would get one the color af polished kukui nuts. |
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