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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2164 Posts |
 Posted - 03/15/2007 : 7:24:11 PM
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| Eh, Mempachi Man! No fo'get da east coast guys stay too crowded alla time. As why dey worried about personal space, time, go fas', no go slow, li' dat. Dey really no mo' huhu, jus' crowded too much. Da place choke. Da Midwes' get plenty room, plenty bratwurst, plenty polkas, no mo'stress. |
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Menpachi Man
Lokahi
274 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 7:44:50 PM
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eh Thumbstruck ... az wot I tahkin about (that is what I am talking about)... da culcha (culture) different ... I know dey no mo huhu. I tryin to stress undastandin (understanding). Same time, no can lump all eas-coastah in one pile. Look at Claudia --- jus like one local or midwesterner. Okay, no mattah what I say -- going sound like I generalizing, but I hope you get da point.
More education:
Online ... kinda hard cuz you no see how they talking. Intonation of speech along with body english can indicate a lot about intention/attitude even more than the words itself. Online, no can hear how dey talk, no can see their gestures, misunderstandin can be waaayyy mo wors due to personal projection on how the other might sound/intend. It can be interpreted as much worst than it is intended. Or totally missing the other person's intention altogether. People should be aware of this.
(tahk anykine --- as long as no sound "fake") |
Edited by - Menpachi Man on 03/15/2007 8:10:37 PM |
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 9:18:58 PM
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UH, I don't get it....
I thought what Reid requested was perfectly logical. However, I still see the post that includes the (name deleted) phrase.
Reid does have sense of humor. I saw nothing that was offensive. We seem to be getting a little testy around each other, and that's kind of sad. We really have to remember that we all come from different walks of life, different parts of the country (countries) and a little leeway goes far when we are trying to communicate with each other....
Aloha, and I mean that, Julie |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2007 : 01:19:10 AM
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| Menpachi - you are right about the sharks. Just like any critter...they are lazy. They don't want to have to struggle to find food. More energy efficient to take the easy way...take your bait, take your fish...next, take your leg. So once again, here is another touristy thing that on the surface sounds fun and exciting, but actually presents a problem. Matter of fact, I have read on the shark encounter businesses' web sites....they all brag that the sharks are "waiting" for them when they get there. That sure tells you something. Now my husband went shark fishing at night on a charter last time we were O`ahu. They used ahi for bait. The captain of the boat told Paul that they were not permitted to chum. If this boat no could chum, then why the shark encounter guys can chum? Seems to me that would not be legal or pono. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 03/16/2007 01:19:52 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2007 : 03:53:18 AM
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Menpachi, what variety of shark are you encountering? The only human strikes I know about in Hawaiian waters are from Tigers. As you probably know, sharks are pretty much guided by smell and sound and pressure on the lateral line. Their eyesight is pretty bad, and only used up close. Normally, they are quite timid unless guarding their young. But, you never know what can happen underwater. If it gets scary, you might do what a recent research paper suggests: whack them on the gills. The old story about the nose doesn't work. And, if you use a bang stick, it is likely that the blood from the wounded or dead shark will cause the rest to go into a feeding frenzy.
Chumming is a real problem, and that happens a lot, even by tourist or local snorkelers. Not only in Hawai`i, either. We were at Cozumel once and all the sixpacks were chumming like mad so that their clients would be surrounded by fish, be happy, and give them big tips. That got all the really big morays out (when they normally stay in their holes) and diving at the chum. So weird things happen because of that. At Haunama Bay, where people feed the fish regularly, Sarah was attacked by a needle fish which is very, very strange. It repeatedly rammed her fins. BTW, a kid had recently had his head pierced by a small needlefish or half-beak (I forget which) not long before that. I had to kick it with my fins to get it to stop. At Kapalua, we were chased by an inflated porcupine puffer who just wouldn't quit and got real close, so we had to surface on our backs and power into shore. Puffers are normally like pussy cats.
Then, there are accidental encounters. At Honolua, two 4 foot Blue Ulua were pack hunting, and they raised a huge Green Puhi which headed straight for us to hide behind. The Ulua made pass after pass at the eel and us. As you know, they have big sharp teeth. We were entangled in a furball as the puhi kept dodging around us and the ulua kept sweeping in with mouths open . As soon as we saw an opening, we got out of the fight and out of the water.
More and more people in the water, and more and more boats doing whatever they can to make a buck, is a just another part of the recipe for disaster that is overtaking all the reefs in the world.
Sarah and I take great pride in the fact that we have never, ever touched coral - even when we got trapped in 3 or 4 inches of water over a reef channel - and we have never, ever interfered with any sea critter. We just watch and mark down our sightings in a Life Book.
But, we love to eat what comes into our local fish store.
...Reid |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2007 : 05:51:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Menpachi Man
Online ... kinda hard cuz you no see how they talking. Intonation of speech along with body english can indicate a lot about intention/attitude even more than the words itself. Online, no can hear how dey talk, no can see their gestures, misunderstandin can be waaayyy mo wors due to personal projection on how the other might sound/intend. It can be interpreted as much worst than it is intended. Or totally missing the other person's intention altogether. People should be aware of this.
I re-read posts and honestly think that this is what is happening here. Each time I read it, I try to see it from both sides. And I figure if we were all talking in a room together, this would have gone much better. Maybe I am wrong?
LikaNui - I am always glad to see people coming out of lurker mode. And I think you picked a good reason to do so. Frankly, the community benefits greatly by hearing from new people. |
Andy |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2007 : 06:06:24 AM
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Back to the original post:
2 years ago I stayed with friends on O'ahu and visited Waikiki for the first time since the '70s. We walked from the Outrigger Canoe club, then the aquarium, and strolled along Waikiki. I really enjoyed the bronse statues and fountains. The landscaping was delightful. It's really different of course. Gone are the apartments where I stayed with my cousin - - first time I had seen a bathroom door with a full quarter of it eaten away by termites. The international marketplace is probably more fun at night than in the morning. It was good to visit the Arizona Memorial. The snorkling a Hanauma bay was spectacular years ago. It's a marine sanctuary, but now it's "upgraded" and costs to go there. I would imagine the old sugar mill up-country is still there for tours and that was interesting.
As a diver, I really really object to chumming. Like all predators, sharks are opportunistic feeders. You need to keep your game bag anchored away from you. They hit my nephew's friend off Waihe'e one night and took off his leg. I'm not sure knowing what kind of sharks are out there really matters. Nor do I think all incidents are reported.
There are also dolphin encounters that friends of mine really enjoy. They are in the open ocean, chumming isn't used to bring them in. The dolphins seem to enjoy human encounters there, just as they join us here on the west coast.
Just really enjoy yourself.
n |
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andyjade
Akahai
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2007 : 12:02:38 PM
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| D4mn, ya'all need to get to Jonathan Yee's awa farm STAT! |
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Menpachi Man
Lokahi
274 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2007 : 6:59:36 PM
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Reid .. hui ... you one real smaht guy! You know ANYKINE stuff real good! One day I going get as smaht as you! haha! jus joke! NOT goin happen! You sound like my friend who got 99.9% grade in statics (for those not familiar, it is almost unheard of at UH during my time anyway). He was supah-nerd, supah good guitarist, supah beer drinkah, and taught me regular guitar.
okay ... talk story ... I get my beer ... and guitah ...
Mostly tigahs, hammahs, and white tips. Yea, maybe I imagining that they getting more aggressive since to me it was new behavior I did not encounter before and I used to go quite often. Maybe, just more unpredictable behaviors unknown to me. I jus gotta watch more carefully. I was thinking of CO2 but I dunno ... getting old and more chicken of sharks .. maybe I should jus do land fishing. When dey look at you, no look like their eyesight is bad. Look like they lickin their chops. My stringer is around 30 feet long so they don't bite me when they tryin for da fish. But when I go deep (40-50 feet free dive) and come up for air, it is usually closer to me. I was never "lucky" enough never to need to ding the shark on da nose. But I watched the animal channels ... yes, gills and eyes ... not da nose. Reid, you right, all over da world, not only in Hawaii. But I still no like the chumming (palu) to go spock da shahks. Wanda -- dunno if it is legal or not, some places (maybe not Hawaii) have a distance regulation but I forgot where. Too bad no can sing underwater with my setup, I can almost guarantee, they going run away.
Da Puhi:
One time, long ago, small kid time, I got bit by one puhi (spotted moray ~ 4ft long, well look long since I was small kid 10 yrs old.). But was my fault since I was trying to spear it for bait. And get this. I was on a rock ledge about 1 ft above the water, and it jumped out of the water and bit my mid lower leg -- 30 stitches. One side of the jaw locked on the tibia bone, other side ripped the flesh. The worst puhi I scared of is the Kauila or kawila (i foget how to spell da name) reddish purple color. Plenty of needle like teeth, da eyes shine when you shine da light on em. Dat buggah is real aggressive too.
Ulua:
Yep, we use puhi and tako for bait as well as other kine fish. Long ago I knew someone who had his hand torn up when he reached inside the gills to try to carry it. Da ulua mouth can bite pretty good but I would be more worried about da puhi, but then again I usually have my spear. Inside the ulua, there is a secondary set of teeth which really grinds up the prey. Da gills are razor sharp (to me). If you guys cleaned (prepped) ulua, you know what I mean. Catch any big fish, don't put your hand in da gills.
Needle-fish:
I thot da kid had his abdomen pierced by da stick-fish (local for needle-fish -- big isle anyway). Not da head. He was doing night-time spearfishing. Was pretty serious injury.
Hanauma Bay:
oh yeah ... Hanauma .. I took my mainland (ex)girlfriend there long ago. Was feeding da fish bread (and bagged peas and carrots ... eh, no get down on me ... my friend told me they like it and yes they do ... dunno if legal tho, so no copy me, da warden did not make me stop). We was about knee deep water then I heard "Ooowww, the fish bit me !!!!!). I cracked up laughing so hard, but not long cuz I got punched in da shoulder with one big pouty face. Later, I saw one Asian tourist with a bleeding finger exiting the water probably from da same fish. So watch for da nenue (enunue). Not too much damage but enough to broke da skin on da fingahs.
Ciguatera:
When fishing and eating your locally caught fish be aware of the local species and locations with high frequency of ciguatera. Commercial resturant fish usually okay. Check out the interviews by local guys on da right hand side. It WILL amuse you. Well, it amused me anyway. Dey talk story real good fun kine way.
http://cigua.oceanit.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=67&Itemid=35
When visiting Hawaii ... saftey first ... fantasy island second.
Glenn |
Edited by - Menpachi Man on 03/16/2007 8:34:30 PM |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2007 : 12:52:59 AM
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Just a thought on this subject...
I wonder why tourists or visitors should have to be conciencious and alert to avoid damaging the islands. Shouldn't all commercial ventures detrimental to the Hawaiian ecology and landscape be illegal?
Bob |
Bob |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2007 : 04:59:19 AM
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| I think you should look at that word "commercial" and you'll have your answer... like every other group, there are those with consciences, and those who are more intrigued with the money. Take a look at devastion down the keys. There is only one licensed dive boat operation off Moloka'i, but you can find several on the web. I am absolutely Not an expert at anything. In the last maybe 10 years, dive boat operations in particular areas have gotten together and installed moorings at popular dive sites such at Molokini crater so now the anchors are not causing the damage they once did. But I was on a dive boat off Waimanalo that sorta missed the edge of the reef and dragged straight into it. Also, most commercial dive operations alert divers to the conservation issues in the dive briefing. But many of the divers are new, coming from the mid-west and back east and are making their first ocean dive after getting certified in quaries and lakes. They don't have the control to hover just off the reef. The good thing is that dive operations are keeping them to only a few dive sites. This is just one example of an industry involved in conservation. ATVs really tear up the environment, but so do jeeps out hunting. Should hunting for food be banned? It's not all commercial interests that can cause damage, not just tourists. Needs to be a balance... |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2007 : 06:58:14 AM
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Businesses sell goods and services for which there is a demand. Simple enough to not demand the services that do not malama the `aina. I was very close to giving money to the firm that takes people on the "Duck" excursion...or the ATV's at Kualoa Ranch...but thanks to my friends here at Taro Patch, I have been educated. I just will spend my money in Hawai`i a different way. If we, collectively, want the situation to be different, we can effect that change in the truly powerful way that will make that happen -- that being the manner in which we spend our tourist dollars. I contacted one tour service that has many pono tours...of the gardens, arboreta and wildlife sanctuaries; cultural tours, etc. They said they would design a tour for you if you didn't see what you wanted. I contacted them to see if they had anything with an emphasis on traditional Hawaiian music, hula and history. He told me there is no market for that. The only way to experience the music was to go to hotels, restaurants and lounges, said he. I suggested he might find that there is more of a demand for that type of thing that he really could imagine, but alas, we will have to develop things on our own. You see, I really like going on tours with a guide. They have imparted so much knowledge, things I would never know if Paul and I just went off on our own with a car and a map. If I didn't have a wonderful guide on our last O`ahu hele like Kainoa, how would I have learned about a beautiful flower that grows either way up high or down at the edge of the sea, and each is only half a flower, until put together to form one who blossom...and the lovely story behind that? How would I know about the birth stones? How would I have learned the proper pronunciation of Kalakaua's name? when visiting his mausoleum? It would have kept calling him kah-la-cow-ah; I would have continued calling the first King Kuh mae-ya-mae-ya. I would never have heard the story of a group of boys spear fishing on the north shore who got so tired of lobster one summer, that they traded their catch to the proprietor of a small Japanese grocery for slices of bologna and a loaf of wonder bread?
Economics in Hawai`i are such that many kama`aina make their living in the tourist industry. As hotel workers, restaurant workers, tour bus drivers, tour guides, etc. They need to be able to make a living. To out-and-out cease using those services would not be pono either. It is all a matter of balance. To malama the `aina, the people, the culture, the language, the history. To pay attention when you see a sign that says "kapu". |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 03/17/2007 06:59:32 AM |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2007 : 07:37:52 AM
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quote:
If we, collectively, want the situation to be different, we can effect that change in the truly powerful way that will make that happen -- that being the manner in which we spend our tourist dollars.
Right on, Wanda. And so begins the countdown to the Hundredth Monkey..
This may not help you on your Oahu trip, but Leilehua Yuen on Hawai`i has been leading cultural tours for years. I'd suggest zapping her an e-mail through the link on her website to see if she has any suggestions for Oahu -- her husband Manu lives there, so she's kinda familiar with the place. Heck, maybe she'd even be on the island when you are and be able to lead you around!
Lei is a truly wonderful person -- artist, dancer, songwriter, keeper of the tradition, motor cycle mama, and the only Hawaiian-style banjo player I know.
http://www.kaahelehawaii.com/ |
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Menpachi Man
Lokahi
274 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2007 : 08:18:09 AM
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Eye opening conversations. Made me think some more.
Okay maybe I was too hasty on talking bad about shark tours and chumming. Cannot jus pick on one group or activity. Sometimes, I kinda off cuz of being "stuck in time" seeing things years ago.
Gotta look at things from all angles.
Maybe there are way more divers these days who spear fish which cause sharks to associated food with people. So it could be from spear fishing activity. az why haard (That's why things are complicated) (auwe). Probably got other commercial and recreational activities aggravating the shark-people-food association.
Mahalos for da input. (get plenny smaht people on dis site) |
Edited by - Menpachi Man on 03/17/2007 08:57:21 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2007 : 09:00:22 AM
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Mahalo, Mark for the link to Leilehua's web site. It has a link on there to send her an e-mail, which I did, but the mail was returned because it says "the mailbox has been suspended". Regardless, there is good information on that web site, especially regardiing "ecotourism".
To Menpachi Man - you, sir, are the akamai one. You are the knowledgeable one. Thank you so very much for sharing with us. I am one major scaredy cat. Just the thought of a puhi near me just about makes me want to faint. Pupuka! |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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