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John
`Olu`olu
656 Posts |
 Posted - 12/10/2002 : 11:04:22 AM
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Edited by - John on 06/26/2003 6:57:18 PM |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 1:03:07 PM
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hi jwn,
i try to get in an hour either before or after work, but it's irregular. yesterday i practiced three hours because a performer here invited me to jam with him on stage this friday so i'm worried... 
i play both the ukulele and the guitar, and switch between them. last week, i didn't pick up the guitar at all and spent my time on the ukulele. i hit walls with each instrument, and find myself more able to surmount them if i put the instrument down for a period.
part of the reason i put one instrument down in favor of the other is boredom. about six months ago, due to the encouragement of bill ("slackkey"), i stopped concentrating on tab. it was hard at first but now i find myself becoming bored much less often with the guitar. my latest guitar work (outside of trying to perfect a few numbers so i don't embarass myself too badly this friday) is trying to come up with some new breaks for hi'ilawe and trying to come up with an arrangement of blue spanish eyes. it's not deep stuff, but it's really fun.
i did stop playing for awhile about three or so years ago when i was learning to fingerpick; i gave myself a bad case of tennis elbow. after it cleared up (it took months to go away), i started consciously reducing the tension in my right hand, and it's not recurred.
aloha,
keith
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Keith |
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ohanabrown
Lokahi
281 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 1:29:33 PM
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Aloha,JWN
Great topic, Your going to have all kinds of figures rolling in. "Why and How" Will be the most used words in this post. haha!
Practice,Practice,Practice! The more you do the better you get. "Attention Span" Is very important too!!!
I'll use my son as an example. At age nine he asked me if I could teach him to play slack key.
At that age, slack key isn't the most important thing in there life. BUT PLAYING IS!!!
Roller blades, Skateboards, Riding bikes, And getting into mischief, Is very important, to a nine year old. So knowing all this as a dad, I had to find a way that he could still do all of that, and yet have time to practice.
It took my wife to convince me, To teach him.
That was because he really wanted to learn.
As an adult you know if a youngster wanted to learn an art form that was almost lost! You'd want to find a way that would work out for him.
So I did. We started of with 5 minuets a day, And it worked out jus fine. Believe it or not at age 20 he is still playing ki ho'alu and enjoying this art form.
The 5 minuets a day practice, Gave him time to spend with his friends,And do what 9yr.olds do.
The other thing I did was I always left the guitar on the stand. I would notice that on his free time he would always grab the guitar because, It was always in sight.
Besides his 5min. practice, When he would pick up the guitar and start playing, Thats when I would get my guitar and play along, When he stopped, Then I would stop too.
When he got older, of course, The practice went longer, and that was on his own time. Im not saying this will work for all, but everyone is different, and somehow this 5min practice a day worked out for him. He is currently working on his third CD.
"A Lot Can Happen, In 5 Minuets"
Aloha, A Hui Hou!
Kevin
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Kevin K. Brown |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 2:46:41 PM
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It's great to schedule time for practice each day if you can, but like Bruddah Kevin said, the most important thing is to make sure you leave at least one guitar out on a stand so you'll be inspired to pick it up whenever you have a chance. Five minutes here and there is better than not practicing at all because you can't find a spare 30 minute or hour block of time.
Some days I practice for an hour, some for thirty minutes, some for five. As a result, my progress comes in fits and starts, but fortunately I'm just in this for the aloha...maybe ten or twenty years down the road I'll think about performing!
Above all is, make sure you're having fun! When it stops being fun, take a break and go watch a sunset. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 3:27:34 PM
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Hi John,
How much for me? Not enough!
Now what happened to your fingers? You used to have acrylic talons  . Did something go wrong? I've heard of potential problems, enough to scare me off both them and silk wraps, but lots of people love them and have no problems at all.
Have fun tonite hearing Beamer!
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Pauline |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 5:29:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jwn
...trying to play with bare, finger pads is driving me nuts!
Did you try AlaskaPiks?
http://www.alaskapik.com |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 6:21:24 PM
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John, I'm glad to hear you're healing.
Craig, I've tried a large Alaska pick on my thumb after judicious removal of some plastic. While it's in place, it is wonderful to play with something besides flesh on the bass strings. Then it slips. I just now ordered some brass Alaska picks plus a Fingertone ProPic from Elderly.
I've read that Ani DiFranco (sp?) tapes on her finger picks. I'm discovering why. When they are tight enough not to slip, my thumb-tip turns blue. Maybe the metal picks will fit better.
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 6:35:06 PM
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| OK, one other suggestion...I was shopping for nail polish with my daughter yesterday at the grocery store and noticed that they had this aloe-based stuff that is absorbed into your nails and supposedly increases the rate of nail growth and also strengthens your nails. It was green and in a standard nail polish bottle. You may want to check at your local drugstore to see if they carry something similar. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 7:43:25 PM
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John,
Ingenuity! I'd never have thought of rubber finger tips.
Another that I've heard of is using thin 3M double sided sponge tape, originally suggested for holding on "nails" made of cut up and heat formed credit card plastic. I tried it with acrylic nails, but it was a nuisance to shape the tape. It worked, tho.
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Pauline |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 03:10:16 AM
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Aloha,
A bit on nail tips and back to original question.
I play a classical guitar, so it is easier on the nails, but I have gone to a couple of Master Classes offered by our local guitar society and the response I hear from Masters is almost always the same. -- All you really need is 1/8 to 1/4 inch on nail, and if you make sure you constantly keep them groomed and smooth, -- and don't use them in place of tools, -- well... I've got to say that I find that advice works. My nails aren't too strong. but when I keep them to just under a quarter of an inch or so showing over the finger pad -- well, I haven't had an accident for almost two years (except for that time a few weeks ago when I was trying to open a jar of macadamias with my finger tips and cracked a nail.)\
As to practicing -- I think one of the questions people seem not to address is "Do you/how much do you enjoy playing the guitar/slack key." If you really like the sound of what you are playing, then you want to stay playing. There are times I just play one open string for a few minutes and listen to the wonder of that sound. I think what gets in the way of wanting to practice usually has more to do with (to paraphrase Zorba the Greek) the mind that's like a butcher -- always waying one thing against another. We need to be critical about our playing -- but only as a tool to help us better create the sounds we have in our heads. The rest is pure distraction. In that respect guitar playing is very much like meditation. If you want to see how your mind will play tricks on you, just try to sit down and meditate for a half hour. It's the same with guitar. Just go back to the sounds. They don't even have to be "beautiful" as long as they are genuinely your sounds. (By that I mean if you are really giving your attention to playing and not just messing around.)
Some days I just don't feel good, and I might only play for half an hour and at that just stuff I like to play. Most days I try to follow a routine that includes some technical work, some going over current repetoire, some repetoire building (most often trying to work up a new arrangement,) aand some time to go over my "sketch book" (My sketch book is a TAB book in which I record the riffs and melodies and musical "ideas" that come to me at different times. Typically I try to play for about 90 minutes a day.
There's a wonderful teaching story in the Shakuhachi tradition. (Shak. is Japanese bamboo flute, lots of connections to Zen) The heart of the story is that this guy gets really frustrated in trying to become a master, goes off into the woods and just tries to play one note really well. You might guess that eventually he becomes recognized as a Master. --- I know that often I myself feel like I have to do really profound things on my guitar -- great licks, etc. Sometimes just playing one note melodies with lots of genuine feeling produces extrordinarilly great music. It really is much harder than it appears to be because it gets down to the most basic realities of making any music -- becoming so one with the song and all it conveys --- becoming one with all the resonances happening in and around that wooden box next to our hearts. But when you get into that space -- who would ever want to stop. The amazing thing is that the "space" is there all the time, if we only open ourselves to it.
Here's my real soap box -- playing guitar is athletics. Not gross muscle group athletics like football -- but micro-muscle group work out. You got to have good posture, good hand position, take preventive measures regarding repetative stress -- all that stuff. Professional athletes have professional trainers. Our work is every bit as strenupous and potentially damaging. Malama pono.
Raymond
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 10:06:31 AM
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You often hear music teachers' updated adage, "Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."
I mention this because it seems to me that there are varied dimensions, levels, and types of practicing. Personally, my daily practicing usually consists of noodling around for 5-20 minutes. This is fun and gets the fingers moving, but I think it is not all that high in quality. I’m trying to spend more time practicing complete songs in order to build repertoire. This could take several forms: simply playing a song all the way through from start to finish, sitting down with tablature and working a song out, or listening to a CD and trying to play along. Maybe the difference for me is motivation. If I’m going to play publicly (which rarely happens), then I am more likely to do the latter and work on certain songs, making sure I can play them well all the way through. If not, I am content to noodle for a few minutes in front of the TV.
I hear what some of you are saying. Slack key is fun, therefore practicing should be fun. Makes sense, yet the process of trying to get your fingers to do something, your mind to understand a concept, the stumbling associated with this can potentially be frustrating, boring, and not fun. The other thing about the learning process is that it is easy to feel like you’re stuck in the mud or hitting a wall. A love for the music will keep you coming back to learn more. To keep things interesting, I guess the practice regimen should be varied and fun.
This takes my next thought which pertains to jwn. If you cannot practice with guitar in hand because of finger nails and/or shoulder, perhaps you could practice mentally, i.e. learn where notes and chord structures are on the fret board and general music theory? Maybe you’re doing this already. Or maybe what I’m also trying to say is that even without any physical limitation, this is an area where practicing is too easily overlooked. I know it is for me. |
Andy |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 2:03:21 PM
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aloha e jwn,
you hit a gold mine of a thread! there's a lot of good information comin' out.
have you tried recording yourself playing a song all the way through? it's a great exercise. i found out in listening to my own recording that i wasn't doing very much in terms of dynamic range and color with the right hand; i was just playing the song straight, i guess concentrating too much on not messin' up with the left hand.
i forget who said (in an interview i read) that performing a song is trying to keep it in flight. much of the "lift" comes with the right hand. beamer is a master at this - by changing his attack on the bass notes and getting as much sustain as he can, he makes his songs soar.
keith
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 5:43:53 PM
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A few comments:
1) I don't think "posture" (in terms of spine and head placement, is as critical (although I know 2 guitarists who had to stop concertizing because of nerve problems related to this.) Wrist position is, however, critical. Repetative stress injury is real, and playing guitar is one of the more repetative things you can do. Start putting too much pressure on the carpal tunnel and, well, I wish I owned stock in "Orthopedists of America."
2) From my experience personally, as well as having had a couple of dozen musicians with "block" come to me for counseling, I'm reasonable certain that most of the time the reason for the block or hitting the wall tens to be problems with our expectations more than with our actual playing.
3) We all have to go through times when we challenge ourselves to learn new technique, stress our boundaries. That, too, can be enjoyable if we don't lay huge mental trips on ourselves. Aside from what school has done to us, learning can actually be fun.
4) I really wonder what a "mistake" -- This is a topic I can go on for hours, but I won't. My favorite statement about mistakes comes from Picasso. Picasso said that it's ok for people to copy master painters and sculptors. Then you look for your "mistakes" -- and that is where your real self is coming through.
5) I know that I will never play as good as Keola, Ozzie, or thousands of others players. Most of the time that's ok. All I need to do is play my best, play my heart. If others don't want to listen, that's ok. I've got enough friends who humor me. If I end up playing in such a way that it moves others. Also ok. Then again, sometimes my crazy mind gets the best of me and I start listening for mistakes in others' playing. (Not only does that feel bad in the long run, it is also a waste of precious time.)
'nuff said.
Raymond
San Jose |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 6:45:56 PM
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I, too, know when I play something I don't intend, or when I can't get my hands to do what my brain wants them to do. When I said I don't know what a "mistake" is, I was really trying to get at the emotional valence connected with "making mistakes." I see a lot of musicians, and I myself at times, getting down on themselves for "making mistakes " -- laying rich emotional trips. Mistakes that involve harm to people or property might call for that. Not so in music. In fact, I think that a lot of the drive for playing right notes comes from the artificial ways that recordings are made today. You can cut in one note, you can even change the pitch of any note with the right software and engineer. I have many old recordings of virtuoso pianists -- and there are a lot of notes which aren't in the original music (mistakes.) But that wasn't a big deal because of the artistry going on. It is more important to make music that expresses and communicates than it is to play the correct notes. (And before this starts a whole other line, that doesn't mean professionals, or even amateurs, should revel in sloppy technique.) I'm talking about both a sense of perspective and a sense of "sanity" that can support making music for the joy of it. Or, like Keola once said, if you make a mistake, repeat it and call it jazz.
Raymond
San Jose |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2002 : 10:28:04 AM
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To me it's not practice. It's more of a daily adventure, sort of like: Let's see what new turns it takes now.
I keep my guitar in its case, but leave the case out (and latched). So it's easy to grab anytime. I also keep a guitar stand out to rest the instrument for short periods. I like to begin and end my sessions with playing arpeggio patterns while making random but melodic fingerings with my fretting hand.
Then I will work on the piece(s) I'm trying to learn for a while and intersperse this with tunes that I know well. I usually play on a (semi) daily basis for an hour or two – maybe not all at once though.
Mistakes happen but I just try to keep on playing rather than stop and restart. It’s amazing what creative ways you can come up with to cover mistakes.
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2002 : 12:12:43 PM
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My own practice schedule is dictated by my body. I have had tendonitis in both thumbs (where they join the wrist) for several years now. Their condition dictates if I practice that day. As my fingers are very stiff to start with, I take about 15 minutes to warm up and then will go on until my cervical or lumbar spine makes me stop (I only have S1 and L2 that works). Usually about an hour, but sometimes as much as 2 hours. I always try to go through Taro Patch scales, 6ths, 3rds, various vamps and stuff during warm up. Then go into tunes I know or can remember quickly. If I goof up a passage, I will repeat it until it sounds the way I want it to. Then I always spend some time on something new or that I don't know well. Often in another tuning, and often in a completely different style - like Auntie Alice. I will often change guitars, just out of curiosity or because one happens to be in the tuning I am then interested in.
On days when the bod won't let me play, I do what Andy said: something intellectual. I am working on learning "standard" notation and am transcribing some of King's old songs into tab and, at the same time, trying to figure out what he is doing for harmony, counterpoint, etc. (What, besides the obvious use of 3rds and 6ths and chord progressions makes it sound both Hawaiian and beautiful - to me)? I am also cataloguing all the D7-G vamp variations (have 18 now and still climbing)and breaking them apart to understand why they work, and then diagramming the possibilities in each of the 4 bass note positions (it has never been clear to me why Es and Bs and some other notes sound good in a D7 chord - except to vacuously say that they are "passing" or "approaching" or "descending" or scale notes).
Anyway, I spend about 1 to 4 hours each day on something to do with music and I am still as lousy and confused as ever :-) But, I love it - at my stage of life, I won't do many things that don't please me.
Cheers,
Reid |
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