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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
 Posted - 07/20/2007 : 6:59:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Menpachi Man
3 no-can-see-kine mouse
You do say the first word as "chree," yeah? |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 11:19:46 AM
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Sounds like the Pidgen Fairy Tales- Have to sell the old pipi to get kala for pay cable TV bill to watch Smoke Gun and Da Rifle Kane.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 07:12:01 AM
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I hate when some people say aloha to me, as if I was a parrot and they want me to repeat. I usually say howdy but they don't get the point because it is fun to put on an Hawaiian shirt and pretend they are Hawaiians. A lady at a party kept saying aloha to me but I didn't want to respond. It broke my heart to finally have to say aloha back to her to shut her up. She was annoyed with me. I hate her for forcing me to say it. It's a game to some people. Then they bore me with stories about their experiences with Hawaii (at tourist spots mind you). I don't care about the royal hawaiian hotel or places my family could not afford due to the influx of outsiders who have jacked up the prices of everything.
Some people have the gall to behave childishly, like Alexandria, and don't realize they have insulted me and others. Alexandria insist and practically demands that we enable her fanaticism. A lot of people jump right in the game and start spewing pidgeon. I speak pidgeon naturally but find it silly in print.
The notion that the happy hawaiians will welcome you with open arms is a myth perpetuated by the tourist trade. I am an unhappy hawaiian constantly subjected to veiled racism. For many years I have been apathetic. Now I am old enough and brave enough to express how I really feel. It is a negative impact that I am going for. Just something I thought I'd say to you guys.
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Stay Tuned... |
Edited by - hikabe on 07/25/2007 07:17:27 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 12:43:30 PM
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Now its just me, but.... if someone says aloha to me, I believe them. Aloha is just better that way. Hate is a mighty strong word and to me, hate means you have given power to someone else to make you feel that way. I don't like to give someone that kind of power over me. I make myself feel the way I want to, so that I can only blame myself if I don't like the way I feel.
If you wanted a negative impact, I believe you probably just got what you asked for.
Now since I am from W. Va., we do say howdy all the time (never heard any of my family say Aloha), but I have never heard one hillbilly or southerner talk stink about a Hawaiian for saying howdy.
But, hey again, that's just me.
And so far (although I do not have years and years of experience), anyone I have encountered in Hawai `i, as well as any place else I have traveled have been kind and polite and sharing. This has been whether it was on O`ahu at Waikiki, or Makaha or Kahuku or Waianae or Kane`ohe, etc. or Maui or Kaua`i or Big Island. I guess I just lucked out.
Hiram, I am very sorry you feel this way. I hope you are not teaching `ukulele to or playing for anyone who might expect you not to hate them. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 1:00:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hikabe
Some people have the gall to behave childishly, like Alexandria, and don't realize they have insulted me and others. Alexandria insist and practically demands that we enable her fanaticism.
Hiram - you are aware that `Alika (I am assuming that is to whom you are referring) is a teenage girl who is STUDYING `olelo Hawai`i, as well as other aspects of Hawaiian culture and music? She actually gives a damn about the subject, and wants to do things right - much more so than most tourists. No one has more zeal than the convert, I've often been told. Have you never experienced that kind of intense interest amongst your `ukulele students who are not kanaka? To even suggest that her desire for accuracy has any semblance of a racist motivation is, at the very least, irresponsible.
quote:
I am an unhappy hawaiian constantly subjected to veiled racism. For many years I have been apathetic. Now I am old enough and brave enough to express how I really feel. It is a negative impact that I am going for. Just something I thought I'd say to you guys.
I have seen that negativity in many of your posts. It's got some anger behind it, for sure.
It's not my place to say whether or not you should *feel* that anger - but I am comfortable saying that I do not appreciate how you regularly express it here. If you are old enough to express it, you are undoubtedly old enough to know how to control and focus it. I hope you are not also teaching or performing with such a message; if you are, I will take it as a sign to stay away from you, your lessons, and your performances. |
Edited by - Retro on 07/25/2007 1:30:57 PM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 2:37:36 PM
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I appreciate what you're saying, Hiram.
I don't think all outsiders understand how you feel, nor do I think all Hawaiians have the same resentments as you. Please let everyone here find their own way into/through/around Hawaiian culture in whatever manner they can with as little judgement as possible. Many here are interested but still don't understand that sometimes they are seen as meddlers.
You have a more eclectic view of music and culture than many Hawaiians and Hawaiians-at-heart as evidenced by your posts about 'ukulele repertoire and other topics. Every Hawaiian views his/her Hawaiian-ness differently. That is understood.
Conversely, many of us are here expressly because we love Hawaiian music, have an interest in Hawaiian language and study Hawaiian culture. We are going to make mistakes and step on toes. Let everyone have some space to be clumsy about their approach to this interest and forgive when you can.
Even if you are unhappy with someone's post, there's no need to share it with everyone. Let us all show more ha'aha'a (humilty) about our own feelings.
Jesse Tinsley
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 4:00:58 PM
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Jesse - you are right an I was out of place. Therefore, I will publicly apologize and ask forgiveness from Hiram.
Hiram - please forgive me. I was rude.
Wanda |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 4:20:18 PM
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Hey Wanda, it is good when there's plenty of ha'aha'a to go around. Mahalo.
For so many of us, Taropatch.net is like a home away from home with good friends and lively conversation, but the story of Hawai'i can be as varied as the number of Hawaiians left to tell it. Thanks to Hiram and all the Hawaiians who comment and help the rest us on our quest to learn more.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 5:45:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hapakid
Even if you are unhappy with someone's post, there's no need to share it with everyone. Let us all show more ha'aha'a (humilty) about our own feelings.
Thanks Jesse. Well said.
Whatever people's views are in Taropatch land, it is the diversity here that keeps things interesting. When I read Hiram's post, I was conflicted by thoughts of, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all" versus appreciating Hiram's personal thoughts and experiences on racism.
It is all good. However, I hope that discussion and dissenting views can be made with mutual respect for one another. |
Andy |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 5:59:09 PM
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All of us here have their own reason to spend time on this board, and it all centers around things Hawaiian. It doesn't make any difference if it's love of the music, love of the culture, love of the language, love of hula, etc, etc, etc. It's love of something Hawaiian.
Listening and learning about and collecting Hawaiian music has become my all consuming hobby. The short time that I've been on this board has shown me how little I know and how much respect the music of Hawaii truly deserves. You find reverence for the Hawaii of old in its Chants and the inclusiveness of new Hawaiian culture in its Hapa-Haole. With lots in between and beyond. I love a Hawaiian Rainbow of music that contains a Tau Moe, a Dennis Pavao, a Harry Owens, a Charles Ka'upu, a Bing Crosby and a Led Ka'apana. That inclusiveness to me is very beautiful and a refuge for me when I think about how some other cultures are reacting to change. The image of the Taliban In Afghanistan blowing up centuries old statues of Buddha to "protect and preserve their cultural identity and religion" come to mind as the opposite of what Hawaii and Aloha are all about.
I grew up on a small family farm in what was at the time rural Delaware, on a dirt road. That road has long since been paved and the fields and woods that I used to hunt rabbits and doves in are being taken over by houses. I don't resent the people that live in those houses but I do feel sad to see the changes.
I feel its the same thing in Hawaii with the changes that have happened over the years. I would hope that all lovers of things Hawaiian are sensitive to these changes and try to put the Hawaiian Aloha on them to make sure that they set an example for us all. We all have so much to learn. |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 9:00:21 PM
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Vibrant living always brings change. However, sometimes change comes from an influx of outsiders who bring their ways with them and force change. For example, real estate development cannot occur in a society that does not honor private property ownership. The Hawai'i of old was one such society. Newcomers proceeded to plug in their economic system to accommodate their manner of doing business. The change was rather rapid and the Native Kanaka Maoli was literally left in the dust. It was not a good thing for the Hawaiian people but every other westerner or Asian or European who came to Hawai'is shores after that change benefitted from the new system. At that time it was more of one culture displacing another culture and in the course of history, the more powerful, evil carpetbaggers with their pseudo christian values began to practice a form of racisim that exploited all non white people living in Hawaii.
Hiram seems to choose the lower road by acting as bad as the oppressors he hates. He does not represent all of Hawaiian people by a long shot. If someone says aloha the word itself has such a deep meaning that the only reply should be aloha. No matter whose mouth the word comes out of.
I do think though that the idea of aloha spirit was a marketing ploy promoted by the same people who embrace an economic system that led to the destruction of the monarchy. Remember too, that the USA is very anti monarchy to begin with. So, when someone who is not native to ka pae 'aina o Hawai'i it is very shallow and demeaning for someone to say they know what aloha means . Especially when they say "I only mean it with the deepest respect of aloha spirit that the Hawaiians practice". Again I must say that aloha spirit never existed in tha manner that most people are led to think.
Hawaiians are people and like people they expect a modicum of behavior from others that is in conjunction with the mores of a society that practiced a morality set forth by their spiritual beliefs. Again I stress that people be themselves and not try to fit in with plastic attitudes that cause guys like Hiram to get angry. You need not walk on eggshells but just don't treat us like novelties or objects.
Music is universal and it has no boundaries based on nation or color of skin, But when specific reference to a group of people occurs, the mere act of singling out a group is racist in itself. The Queen was called the 'N' word in the Hearst newspapers that circulated in the US. King Kalakaua was caricatured looking like a monkey. These thing may be in the past and yes harboring resentment does no one any good. Yet these things occur still. The singling out of Mexican immigrants and Muslims today is reminiscent of the singling out of jews in germany not so long ago. I don't harbor resentment but I am a student of history and I am compelled to remind myself and others about the danger of looking away when an injustice happens under our noses.
Hiram I thank you for your candor and also thank you retro for reacting. But we must temper our feelings with compassion and love. If we react negatively to things we really dislike we behave no better than the perpetrators of our dislike. And we allow situations like we are living under to fester and spoil until we jump at each other and end up ignoring solutions to the real problems.
I don't profress to know what we should do so I don
't offer any died in the wool suggestions as to how we should act. John and Yoko stayed in bed for a long time to give peace a chance. Why don't we do the same. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 11:31:44 PM
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Well said, Al. We can do nothing about history (except learn from it) or ancestry. You can't raise a group to consciousness. It's like I tell Hans, "We conquer ignorance one person at a time, one polka at a time." Playing in an Austrian/German band, I have people speak German to me frequently. I reply in Swedish that I don't understand them. It usually gets a laugh.
Life is a series of adjustments. Growth hurts.
Slack key for the blood pressure. |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2007 : 03:14:52 AM
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Thanks to everyone to coming to a place of understanding.
Most of us know the basics of the history of Hawai'i and the anger that is left behind. And we shouldn't tell anyone else what they are supposed to think about those issues. Everyone who loves Hawai'i is welcome to post here, but every post doesn't have to be piha hau'oli (full of happiness).
Jesse Tinsley
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alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2007 : 03:42:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hikabe
I hate when some people say aloha to me, as if I was a parrot and they want me to repeat. I usually say howdy but they don't get the point because it is fun to put on an Hawaiian shirt and pretend they are Hawaiians. A lady at a party kept saying aloha to me but I didn't want to respond. It broke my heart to finally have to say aloha back to her to shut her up. She was annoyed with me. I hate her for forcing me to say it. It's a game to some people. Then they bore me with stories about their experiences with Hawaii (at tourist spots mind you). I don't care about the royal hawaiian hotel or places my family could not afford due to the influx of outsiders who have jacked up the prices of everything.
Some people have the gall to behave childishly, like Alexandria, and don't realize they have insulted me and others. Alexandria insist and practically demands that we enable her fanaticism. A lot of people jump right in the game and start spewing pidgeon. I speak pidgeon naturally but find it silly in print.
The notion that the happy hawaiians will welcome you with open arms is a myth perpetuated by the tourist trade. I am an unhappy hawaiian constantly subjected to veiled racism. For many years I have been apathetic. Now I am old enough and brave enough to express how I really feel. It is a negative impact that I am going for. Just something I thought I'd say to you guys.
Well then, no practicing 'olelo with you!
'Alika |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2007 : 03:46:38 AM
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Ha!
Too funny, Alika!
Jesse Tinsley |
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