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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
 Posted - 01/19/2008 : 07:56:09 AM
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Lawrence/Kika Kahu, digital recording simply requires straining some brain cells, however you do it. If you have a computer you can do low quality low cost multitracking with a $15 computer mic and Reaper software, but it will require plenty of reading, cussing, experimenting, head banging, fiddling, yelling, and trial and error. You can improve quality substantially with investments in microphones, computer interface devices, preamps, and room treatment, but the need for learning the software, mic placement, and equipment will be ever present.
An alternative is an integrated multi-track recording device. These come in a vast range of prices, with more or less commensurate performance and features. The H4 has built-in mics, but the tiny box results in a fiddly interface. High end systems have 8 or 16 mic inputs and tons of effects and capabilities, but cost in the range of $1500+. With that being said, the two biggest complaints I hear about integrated recording devices is the complex user interface (tiny screen, many buttons, each of which does many things) and marginal mic preamps.
I'm afraid that multi-tracking is just a complicated topic. It's much much much easier and cheaper today than it was before digital recording, but the complexity can only be reduced so far, and no farther.
So if you _really_ want to do this, my suggestion would be that you determine a budget and choose between computer based and standalone workstation, then begin digging through web sites and asking questions.
And I might warn you that in my experience, I've only really learned something after spending my own hard earned cash, usually on the wrong thing <grin>.
Oh, one more comment - you say "Now I hear other instruments in my head" and I have to wonder if you're talking about layering strings, percussion, horns, etc. in your multi-track work. If so, I would suggest that you're headed toward a computer based, MIDI and sample driven system. Of course, I'm completely off base if you're a multi-instrumentalist.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 09:03:32 AM
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Kika Kahu, a real good source for info on recording is right here:
Search (see the link up on top of the page?) and go to this Da Kine Music Gear forum. Click on "Search archives" (or whatever it says) and do the search. Many of us here have struggled through everything you are struggling through now. You can learn from our struggle. Moreover, unlike other web sources of info, it is already organized temporally by struggle :-) as each of us beginners wrestled with an unknown, in what will be very close to the way your own struggle should be organized.
...Reid |
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Kika Kahu
Aloha
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 08:14:38 AM
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Maholo Fran and Reid! Again, new to Taro Patch and this type of chatting. Still learning about it all. I work 60 hours per week and I try to squeeze in playing, exploring and now recording! Oi, Oi!
I purchased an Alesses (sp?) interface last weekend. Will be using stero mics for regular acoustic intruments and plugging my Taylor straight into the device. (This really works slick. With the on-board pre-amp I can get the sound I want up front) Sales person Joel also suggested 'reaper'. I am now recording multi tracks. Thats all for now. Then on the the next level. It's soo much fun and I am chomping to really get into it. Goal is of course a CD for friends and family who continually hound me after they hear me perfomr slack for them. They love it!
My daughter moves to Maui on Tuesday. She just graduated from WSU and landed a great job there. Now more reasons to travel there and work on my chops towards sunset at the beach! It all seems easier there. Again, mahalo for your kind advise.
Aloha and best wishes for a great 08! |
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Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 1:54:25 PM
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I get to photograph Low and the WSU Cougars periodically for my newspaper. Low is the real deal.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Kika Kahu
Aloha
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 2:46:07 PM
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Jesse, Darin: Yo, go Cougs! What a treat to watch WSU athletics these past years. Nothing like a crisp fall afternoon in Pullman watching the Cougars play at Martin Stadium. We will surely miss all the spirt and Coug comraderie. It all went by so fast. Once you go over to the crimson there's no going back. Lowe is certainly the real deal. Hoping Tony Bennett puts them back on the reqruiting trail.
Larry |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 1:05:01 PM
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We need help! I have read the book but and having problems figuring out how to e-mail .mp3 files. First of all, when Paulrecorded his songs, they were saved as .wav files. Well, trying to e-mail them from him to me did not work because the files were too big and my e-mail system will not accept attachments greater than 10 meg. So he saved them as .mp3 files which is supposed to make them smaller. One was about 4 meg and that did e-mail. One is 7 meg and we cannot e-mail that one. It keeps getting bounced because the attachment is too large. Is there a way to further compress the file using the Zoom H2, or is there a way we can compress it through normal computer PC-based software? I tried zipping the files, but it won't zip the music files. I do not know what I am doing, and Paul knows even less than me about computers, if you can believe that.
Is there a way you can change your e-mail (using Outlook) to permit larger attachments? I had that trouble in the past with photos (.jpg) and was able to use my photo software to save smaller resolution photos.
Mahalo for the kokua. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 4:26:02 PM
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mp3 files at 4 and 10 mb are really, really big. Either the songs were not converted at the rate you wished (there are many mp3 rates and some compress only somewhat) OR the playing went on for an awful long time.
Make sure that you are choosing an appropriate rate (like 128 kbs, or whatever) - the software *should* allow you to select - and that you are not compressing more than about 5 mins. of music.
It is *not* Outlook that cares about attachment sizes, it is the ISP, normally on the receiving end, that cares, and won't allow big stuff through the server.
...Reid
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 6:22:59 PM
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I converted them to MP3's at 256 kbp, and the one was pretty big. Tonight I deleted that and converted the WAV to MP3 at 128kbp. That should work. I didn't realise how big this stuff is. A CD don't look so big.(Your Mother ain't so bad; what happened to you?)We'll see what happens. We don't know where we're going, but we're on our way.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 5:09:21 PM
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Man I get confused. So the H2 came out after the H4? OK, here comes a dumb question... is the H4 "better"? Amazon pricing has me intrigued. I know someone (Ried?) is a big fan of the Layla. Audacity seems to get so-so reviews, yet I ahve not run into limitations that I am aware of.
Here is what I want to do. Record a track. Massage it. Play it back while recording the second track (sometimes). I want to master building two tracks together.
Sounds like the H4 as balanced lines in? Is an investment in something like Ozone a good idea (compared to Audacity)? The $250 prices bothers me not.
I am techno savy. I am looking for a simple, but "rich" home recording environment (to learn with) for about $1000.
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
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Pulelehua
Akahai
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 8:00:29 PM
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quote:
Sounds like the H4 as balanced lines in? Is an investment in something like Ozone a good idea (compared to Audacity)? The $250 prices bothers me not.
I am techno savy. I am looking for a simple, but "rich" home recording environment (to learn with) for about $1000.
Mike - You are talking apples and oranges beef jerky here. H4 and H2 are meant as "field" recorders. Layla is an home/studio digitizer. Audacity is a simple low-performance (but free and easy to use) DAW tool. Ozone is a DX/VST mastering tool that NEEDS a host (and will not work with Audacity - so far as I know), but WILL work with Audition and Reaper.
I you are wanting to lay down tracks at home then forget portable recorders. Get a studio-quality digitizer (like the Echo Gina or Layla or many other good digitizers), then get a decent DAW tool (like Audition or Reaper). You can always buy a mastering tool (like Ozone) later on after you have some basic mixes in-the-can.
You will also need at least ONE OR two pretty decent microphones for acoustic recording, a few good preamps, and a GOOD RECORDING SPACE (the most expensive and most often overlooked item).
If your are techno-savy then you already understand decibels, Signal to Noise Ratios, Intermodulation distortion, Sampling/Nyquist theory, Dithering, the FFT algorithm, and other such things. If not then learn them! Then also check out the professional recording websites (there are many) for more information.
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 8:14:48 PM
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Thanks to the idiotic stupidity of cookies and the juvenile and uninformed programmers who designed such things, the previous message was identified as being from Pulelehua when it was not.
It was from Lawrence, who logged onto the machine as Lawrence but the simple-minded children who designed cookies and the message-board Snitz-Forum, never thought even 15 seconds ahead about what happens when someone ELSE uses the machine!!!
Seems like the wheel is destinied to be forgotten and reinvented every 5 or 6 years from now till eternity (except that it will be square then triangular then octogonal, etc).
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 8:30:52 PM
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OK, fine. Give me a shopping list. (hardware s/w).
Does the Layla have internal storage, or must it be hooked to something that does?
There is just too much out there. I want someone to narrow it down for me, given my requirements.
Whats an FFT? Can I play it?  
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2008 : 03:03:24 AM
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The Echo Layla3G is a digitizer with 2 preamps, phantom power out, and many interconnection possibilities with other external devices (like earphones, mixers, etc.). It has a shielded cable connected to a small board in the computer PCI bus. That board is nothing much more than a signal and power interface. The idea is to reduce noise produced by the computer that it might pickup (but doesn't because of the design). It is powered by the computer and uses the computer's storage. It has a software console, and needs something like Audition or Reaper to actually record and play back (and set recording rates and bit depths, not to mention edit and mix). It can digitize at 96khz/24 bit and play back at the same time it records (so you can overdub), in concert with the software. It can also digitize, for recording, many tracks at one time. By tests (my own) its 2 preamps can be either very good or not so good (don't ask me why), so I have good external preamps to put in front of it.
...Reid |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2008 : 06:26:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Reid
mp3 files at 4 and 10 mb are really, really big.
An MP3 file compressed at 128kbps runs around 1MB/minute so a 4MB file is normal for a single track. Still, for sending any file over 1 or 2MB your best bet is to use a free service like sendthisfile.com. You upload the file to their server, they send an email with a URL to the person you want to send it to, and that person clicks on the link to download it. Once it's been downloaded it's removed from the server. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 01/29/2008 06:31:11 AM |
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