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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
 Posted - 11/04/2008 : 11:13:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hikabe
Slipry,
I think Gershwin, Dorsey, Ellington and the like are the closest to aberrating world music, as you put it. The Raphsody in Blue doesn't have a single improvised note, but sounds nearly improvised, especially the piano aria in the middle.
I also play jazz, blues rock, etc on the piano. I understand and enjoy the freedom of these genres. But I also improvise to sound like Bach, Stravinsky, Philip Glass, Beethoven, Rachmananov and other classical musicians. In my formalative years, I sacrificed both ends of the musical spectrum of styles to arrive in the middle.
My observation is this. In general, if you are a left-brain person, you are most likely a classical musician. If you are a right-brain person, you are an improviser. It is rare to find a musician that can execute and improvise equally. We are either machanics or artists.
APT, You still there???
Well, I'm left handed...... |
keaka |
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RichM
Aloha
30 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2008 : 9:57:29 PM
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Even on the Steinway sitting behind me, I can't do pull offs, slides, chimes and produce the other little nuances that can be done on a guitar.
Invention on the keyboard can be done if it is just the notes your playing to put a sound together, but the point is the piano sounds like...a piano. There are things that can be done on the guitar that can't be done on a piano, unless you remove the lid and go at the strings on the grand from the top. I know that has been done, but my sessions do not allow much time to take the lid on and then return it to its closed position.
Sure, it can be raised, but the strings are tough to get to.
Okay, you have 10 fingers and if your good can hit more than 10 notes at the same time to produce a fuller sound than a solo guitar performance, but there is something about the warmth of the sounds that can be made with a guitar that the keyboard just can't do.
So pull offs on the guitar are trills on the piano, and one could trill and pull off at the same rate, slow, medium, fast. What I have found is that if I use 10 fingers on the guitar similar to that as the use on the keys of the piano things can and do happen different.
This is meant to mean that the view I have of left and right hand are not necessarily to be the left plays bass and th eright plays melody, it can work th eother way on guitar too. it takes experimenting with it and figuring out how to use the (lefty that plays guitar right) right hand for melody and th eleft for bass. I know thta sounds confusing, but think about it, and try it to see what one can do. Forget about what is learned and move beyond the norm using what you learned the normal way to play guitar.
Seen the movie 'August Rush'? WHne he plays the guitar and beats the strings, that is one example of what I am reffering to.
So these oddities of sound can be imported into slack key guitar in a sensuous way.
Don't get me wrong, I am hooked on the keyboard and truely enjoy
the ability to play since all the years of time spent getting it down. Maybe it is the fact that I can read and play whatever I want, and over the last few decades that has not been much classical. Sure, I spent plenty of time buried in Mozart, Chopin and Bach with the well tempered clavicord, but life is more than that with music.
When I see the black and whites, I think about I should be playing Beethoven to insure I can keep profincency, but I think I can keep that playing Ophi Moe Moe too.
What was really interesting after spending hours over days learnign the guitar and playing and not playing the piano, I sat down about a month ago and played the piano like it was something I had not been away from for the weeks I had been away.
Strange.
I am left handed, so that means I am in my right mind. Or as what is said is lefty have rights too.
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Music and Ridin' |
Edited by - RichM on 11/04/2008 10:08:13 PM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 10:07:01 AM
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One of the things that people don't seem to know, or choose to ignore, is that there was a great deal of improvisation, often called "continuo", in many genres of "classical" music (one label does not fit all - "classical" is only one part of "Western Art Music"). It is also true that opera singers, especially in the Bel Canto style, make up a bunch of what they sing (sometimes to the consternation of their colleagues). So, although playing "as written" is seen (or heard) often, it is not a blanket issue. I am also struck by how often I have heard "jazz" groups practice hard so that they might as well be playing "as written". Ever hear Brubeck play "Take Five" several times?
...Reid
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 10:27:30 AM
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| on the otherhand music is a no brain thing that comes from the heart. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 10:27:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Reid
One of the things that people don't seem to know, or choose to ignore, is that there was a great deal of improvisation, often called "continuo", in many genres of "classical" music (one label does not fit all - "classical" is only one part of "Western Art Music"). It is also true that opera singers, especially in the Bel Canto style, make up a bunch of what they sing (sometimes to the consternation of their colleagues). So, although playing "as written" is seen (or heard) often, it is not a blanket issue. I am also struck by how often I have heard "jazz" groups practice hard so that they might as well be playing "as written". Ever hear Brubeck play "Take Five" several times?
...Reid
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Right on, as usual, Reid. When I took music history the professor told us that, at least, cadenzas were improvised before the classical era. Beethoven insisted that he could do a cadenza better than anyone else and that other pianists' cadenzas screwed up his concept, so they should play exactly what he wrote. The rest is history. If one looks back through European music histroy, not much was written before the Reniassance. I've seen Gagaku scores dating back through the 1700's, but I don't know what hapeened earlier (I played 2nd koto in the UCLA Gagaku back in the 60's). |
keaka |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 11:22:20 AM
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| I once heard Rubenstein tell a very talented and promising young pianist, "You worry too much about playing the right notes. Learn the piece, then go and sing it with your heart." |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 2:26:09 PM
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Just have fun. Practice is fun, learning new tunes is fun, playing familiar tunes is fun. Das it.
Since music is a communication, it offers us insights into the composers'and artists' minds and hearts.
As far as different instrumnets go: each is a different tool. Sometimes you need a steel guitar, sometimes a couple of ukuleles, etc. BTW, Reid, how's the steel coming? |
Edited by - thumbstruck on 11/05/2008 2:26:59 PM |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2008 : 11:58:06 AM
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Where does that leave those, like me, who are under-brained? But I got two left feet, does that count? All thumbs, too. When I told my parents I wanted a guitar, they told me there was an accordian in the closet. I didn't want that, and never learned the first thing about it. Never learned the little flutophone in the 4th grade either.You want it, or you don't. Desire without talent will take you places talent without desire will never see. Those fortunate ones who have both are the legends that make our voices turn pale with respect. I know enough of chords and scales from guitar to pick out songs on Wanda's Clavinova, but I'm a far cry from a pianist. I haven't touched it but three or four times in the several years it's been in our house. Probably won't,improve, either. It just ain't my thing. And it's got all kinds of funny little buttons that make it into a whole store full of instruments. I don't know how to use any of those doo-dads. 'Cause it ain't my thing. A scientist will analyze what makes a guitar work. That's his thing.A craftsman will build one that's a beautiful work of art. That's his thing. Me, I'll probably drop my pick in the soundhole. We al have our talents. But I'll make enough of the sounds I like to amuse myself. All 3 of us are happy in our own way.'Jus press.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 01:54:02 AM
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Left-right brain theory is not exact. It alludes to the fact that our motor machanics are wired to our brains activity as a mirror image to tactile stimulation. At birth, our brains learn, through our senses, how to coordinate memory with tactile experience. We actually see the world upside down and by feel we learn to flip the image. Similarly, our brain flips the data from the left or right sides of our bodies.
One side of the brain analyzes while the other side simply experiences. One side tries to figure out what is going on, in music for instance, and the other side just enjoys it. Generally, if you sign your name or compute a math problem with a pen in your right hand, your left brain is the analytical side.
Curiously, there are less lefties in the world. Why?
Musicians who say,'from the heart' or 'jes pres' are those who just enjoy what is happening and is less critical about what is involved in making it happen. Of course, they have analyzed enough and have arrived at a level of skill that they have settled on in approaching a piece of music. Their level of skill continues to increase as they feel their way around the styles they are exploring. These people are successful in musical genres in which improvisation is a big part and imagination and creativity is a key element. Mistakes are not always apparent or don't really matter as much in these genres. When Miles messes up the head to "So What", who cares?!
On the other hand. A musician who renders music that is arranged to be played a specific way must be able to execute a passage precisely as written. Creativity and imagination is the product of the composers vision and the players are selfless in a singular effort to portray that vision. It is easier to criticize this form of expression when the piece fails to exact the composers vision or the listeners expectations, especially when a player or players don't do well. Players of this form of music cannot 'jes press'. If Rubenstein hits the wrong note the critics pounce.
In general, people belong to one or the other group, in whatever field they are in. A good way to balance ones craft, if a balance is desirable, is to practice and study the skills needed from the other group.
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Stay Tuned... |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 07:07:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hikabe
Left-right brain theory is not exact. It alludes to the fact that our motor machanics are wired to our brains activity as a mirror image to tactile stimulation. At birth, our brains learn, through our senses, how to coordinate memory with tactile experience. We actually see the world upside down and by feel we learn to flip the image. Similarly, our brain flips the data from the left or right sides of our bodies.
One side of the brain analyzes while the other side simply experiences. One side tries to figure out what is going on, in music for instance, and the other side just enjoys it. Generally, if you sign your name or compute a math problem with a pen in your right hand, your left brain is the analytical side.
Curiously, there are less lefties in the world. Why?
Musicians who say,'from the heart' or 'jes pres' are those who just enjoy what is happening and is less critical about what is involved in making it happen. Of course, they have analyzed enough and have arrived at a level of skill that they have settled on in approaching a piece of music. Their level of skill continues to increase as they feel their way around the styles they are exploring. These people are successful in musical genres in which improvisation is a big part and imagination and creativity is a key element. Mistakes are not always apparent or don't really matter as much in these genres. When Miles messes up the head to "So What", who cares?!
On the other hand. A musician who renders music that is arranged to be played a specific way must be able to execute a passage precisely as written. Creativity and imagination is the product of the composers vision and the players are selfless in a singular effort to portray that vision. It is easier to criticize this form of expression when the piece fails to exact the composers vision or the listeners expectations, especially when a player or players don't do well. Players of this form of music cannot 'jes press'. If Rubenstein hits the wrong note the critics pounce.
In general, people belong to one or the other group, in whatever field they are in. A good way to balance ones craft, if a balance is desirable, is to practice and study the skills needed from the other group.
It takes a lot of time in the woodshed to be able to "play from the heart". |
keaka |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 07:29:51 AM
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| The work on the bicameral mind (left-right) was groundbreaking decades ago. Research with current scanning is beginning to yield pictures of the brain as it is functioning. Much more holistic than ever before imagined, or image-ed. (In fact, one of the newer "jargon" terms is the brain as hologram.) Nothing wrong, however, with using right-left brain as pop psych jargon to refer to preferential styles. |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 12:07:26 PM
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Woodshed? That's where the Papa took the misbehaving son. Wasn't no music out there!
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 11/07/2008 12:07:51 PM |
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hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 1:30:05 PM
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I was born in the woodshed. I had to go to the university for discipline.
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Stay Tuned... |
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