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RichM
Aloha
30 Posts |
 Posted - 10/19/2008 : 11:38:30 AM
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Since I learned to play piano in the late 50's, I used what I was taught then.
Loosening up means working the count of 3:4 and 4:4 in whatever tuning you’re in. Then throwing a melody line that you may have just thought up in with the working base count that perhaps you've spent a few minutes with.
These working base lines in 3:4 are a standard beat, then an interrupted beat, depending on where I want the emphasis to be heard. This could be in Strauss waltz or some other funky way of playing the 3 count 4 measures.
With the 4:4 beat it gets into an old standard 1-2-3-4 count, then into whatever my emotion of the time takes me too. When you get used to working the first few minutes of a play routine with base line work first, then a free play of medley line can follow with some experimentation of old time slack medley on the 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 12th, with diatonic and/or chromatic matching’s. A little jazz can be thrown into the mix too in this, as well as old time Hollywood cowboy songs improved with slack.
Since the world practice only makes sense when trying to make babies, I prefer playing music over practice....it is all words anyway but practice makes it sound like work. SO if you’re not recording and doing it for fun, why make it work? The connotation alone can inhibit free thinking while working the frets.
Since picking up slack a little late in life, the fatigue of the years of piano (too much "practice"?) have created enthusiasm for working with the guitar and slack key.
Some of the things I am looking at are working Scott Joplin and other early tunes into slack tunings. I have to believe that certain influences from people traveling in and out of Hawai'i through the last century and a half have melded works together with influence of many early genres, so my play sessions can get sometimes quite funny in a musical sense and at other time foreboding and with heavy heart (Beethoven & Rachmaninoff as an example) but when worked to the likes of Mozart (okay maybe more than 150 years!) and his happy riffs it all makes playing much more memorable with what comes out of it.
The problem is discovery of what to tab what can happen in some instances briefly and then lost to time because of not knowing a fast way to be able to tab.
So since this is about education and how to make time playing moor meaningful, anyone can advise on a quick methods to tab I'd love to hear it.
I re wrote this, my spelling on this one was terrible! |
Music and Ridin' |
Edited by - RichM on 11/20/2008 09:49:47 AM |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2008 : 3:38:05 PM
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I tab in the style of a lead sheet == just melody line with some indication of the chord structure. (In Taro Patch you sometimes don't even have to write that out 'cause it follows such a routine pattern - I usually only indicate chords if they deviate from standard patterns.)
At a later point I may also tab out certain licks or runs if I don't want to forget them.
About the only time I tab out fully is if I'm doing a very special arrangement or if I'm doing something for a studemt. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 2:29:28 PM
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| I usually just try to go over (and over) a lick or phrase til it falls off the guitar naturally. Never play when it isn't fun (unless paid to) and I like to see if I can get a rise out of those I play with. Like Jack said, keep track of your mistakes, you might be able to use them in a different context. |
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Bijou
Akahai
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 09:41:53 AM
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I have been playing /learning guitar for only one year. I am older so I think it takes me longer to learn. I practice at least 60 to 90 mins 5 to 6 days a week. I have alot of difficulty playing in front of people and cannot even play with them. I have a goal and it is too be able to do the above. Not sure why I am so nervous but I am. I do scales and vamps and take it slow. I do make the same mistakes many times even when I take it slow and break down the song. I can say that I do enjoy practising and it has become a intregral part of my life. Wish I could have started playing in my younger days.
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Judy |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 2:44:37 PM
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| Under pressure, I even forget how to start a song sometimes. The more you do it though, the less effect it has on you. Untill one day, you become like totaly awesome :) |
Bob |
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hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 6:40:25 PM
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RichM,
If you don't have, you will need lots of tab sheets. You can draw 6 lines to resemble 6 strings. You can use an mspaint program and copy the lines so that your page has a few rows. Then you can copy as many sheets as you need.
Everything you do on the guitar can be transcribed on the tablature. A number on the line corresponds to the fret and string it is on. You can place quarter notes, eighth notes, etc in the space above the tablature to indicate note values. With your piano background it will be easy to do. Place barlines where nescessary.
Tab out everything you possibly can, even when brainstorming for riffs and chord progressions. After a while, you'll be good at it. Be dilligent, as it takes about a year to master.
In taropatch-G tuning, you can pry melodies easily out of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string. Use the 4th, 5th and 6th string for bass figures. You can use the 1st string for simple melodies while droning on the other strings keeping a figured bass going. This technique lends itself well to major keys that adhere to the I, IV and V chord design prevalent in most folk, pop, rock and Hawaiian chord progressions. Barre accross the 2nd fret to produce the II chord when passing to the IV chord for the typical vamp. Many baroque and classical composers used the same progressions on a smaller scale. ie, a/b/a/c/a sonata forms.
Even if you have to stop every few seconds, write it down. This is a sure way to remember a passage. Memory is not always helpful for young and old people. Unless you are a savant, writing everything down is most helpful. When you have improved to the point that you can transcribe Rachmananoff, I will be very interested in seeing your tabs.
Lastly. Practicing the right way eludes many people. They may think they have good practice habits, but continue to waste time on needless activity. Needless activity can be therapuetic, albeit, not so constructive. There is no sure way of advising someone on how to practice by suggesting a remedy in a written format. It is only by hearing and watching a student at practice that a teacher can prescribe a course of action. The internet cannot do that. Find a good teacher and invest in a few lessons for some professional help.
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Stay Tuned... |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 6:51:47 PM
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RichM - you now owe Hiram fifty dollars.  |
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RichM
Aloha
30 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2008 : 1:22:29 PM
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Thanks for the tips. Instead of 50 bucks, next time your on Oahu Hiram or plan to come this way let me know and I'll take your advice on trade to play together with some cold drinks and pupus.
I've been tabbing lead offs with various riffs and will work to get the bass line going. Not sure where it will lead, but at this stage it all seems to make more sense
Regarding mr. depression, Rachmanninoff, there are some parts to what he has written that can find a place in slack tab.
I look at music sometimes like a grand comedy that is written one way and played in that time that way, but, then as a root for what can be laid onto the frets today and into the future.
One problem I have is that all of the classics are too strict for me anymore. The pieces require immense immersion into what is on the paper, and then weeks at time practicing to put it together.
Now being older, slack key allows many freedoms for invention that is lacking on a keyboard. This new playground offers reason to sit and really play, and along with it relief from the stress of daily life.
Putting it on paper makes one realize that in time the events that help mold these things define what that time has given as a gift for others to hear.
Gotta find the emotion, and blues & jazz help with that. With Rachmanninoff, if taken too seriousy can immerse one in pity with dark consequences.
When one thinks aout his time, location & life when he put his playing to paper makes one appreciate where we are in life. The times in Russia were bone white and ice cold. With the seriousness of life & death due to the government infriging on all rights of public expression surely had inhbition in his works. But luckily for him, he found a way around that to express all of it in music.
So that is reaching into where my practice is taking me. All I can really advise is take the music apart, replicate what you hear, and spend time playing it until it makes sense musically and makes one 
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Music and Ridin' |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2008 : 7:08:14 PM
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". . . slack key allows many freedoms for invention that is lacking on a keyboard."
Not sure what you mean by that, but it sounds strange to me. While each instrument has its own strengths and weaknesses, I can't imagine how the piano offers less potential for invention than does the guitar. Although I love the guitar and haven't played keyboard for decades, it still seems to me that it is easier to imrovise, and probably also create new music, on the piano. Rather than just have an alternating bass note, you can play the whole chord in multiple voicings under the treble. That puts things into a whole different ballpark. |
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hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2008 : 12:16:52 PM
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Retro. Thanks for the pitch. But I only charge for finished product or services rendered.
RichM
I agree with RJS. There is more freedom on the piano. Unless you play a standard tuned guitar, in which you can easily modulate. Modulating makes for more complex/interesting compositions.
Have you heard of tuning to open A minor? It makes it easier to play Rachmaninov.
I'm sure someone here must know some taropatch minor tunings. Perhaps Ozzie or his students have run accross these rare tunings. |
Stay Tuned... |
Edited by - hikabe on 11/03/2008 12:24:22 PM |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2008 : 12:35:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hikabe
Retro. Thanks for the pitch. But I only charge for finished product or services rendered.
RichM
I agree with RJS. There is more freedom on the piano. Unless you play a standard tuned guitar, in which you can easily modulate. Modulating makes for more complex/interesting compositions.
Have you heard of tuning to open A minor? It makes it easier to play Rachmaninov.
I'm sure someone here must know some taropatch minor tunings. Perhaps Ozzie or his students have run accross these rare tunings.
I play jazz, blues, rock & Cajun/Zydeco on the piano. There is a grat deal of freedom in all of these genres. It's only classical music where you have to play exactly what's written, but with your own (externally approved) flair. No care for 'em. As I have said often here and there in Taropatch, European classical music is an aberration on world music, most of which is improvised. It's head set causes a lot of trouble in the folk world, i.e. "You're not playing that correctly", to which I say "HAH!!". |
keaka |
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hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2008 : 4:21:22 PM
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Slipry,
I think Gershwin, Dorsey, Ellington and the like are the closest to aberrating world music, as you put it. The Raphsody in Blue doesn't have a single improvised note, but sounds nearly improvised, especially the piano aria in the middle.
I also play jazz, blues rock, etc on the piano. I understand and enjoy the freedom of these genres. But I also improvise to sound like Bach, Stravinsky, Philip Glass, Beethoven, Rachmananov and other classical musicians. In my formalative years, I sacrificed both ends of the musical spectrum of styles to arrive in the middle.
My observation is this. In general, if you are a left-brain person, you are most likely a classical musician. If you are a right-brain person, you are an improviser. It is rare to find a musician that can execute and improvise equally. We are either machanics or artists.
APT, You still there??? |
Stay Tuned... |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2008 : 6:31:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Haole_Boy
Under pressure, I even forget how to start a song sometimes. The more you do it though, the less effect it has on you. Untill one day, you become like totaly awesome :)
I had to play for a CBS camera crew once (it was B roll for a story on something else). I picked the easiest song I know and still fumbled through it and completely forgot the ending. Fortunately they didn't use the footage. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2008 : 7:14:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hikabe
My observation is this. In general, if you are a left-brain person, you are most likely a classical musician. If you are a right-brain person, you are an improviser. It is rare to find a musician that can execute and improvise equally. We are either machanics or artists.
Interesting and intriguing theory, Hiram, and I see the logic in it. I would love to see someone follow that up with research.
I don't play classical music, but I love and appreciate it. I also dig improvisational jazz. And traditional forms of "world" music. And electronic pop. And even "bad" music has a place in my heart. I am a sonic omnivore. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2008 : 10:33:58 AM
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I don't think the left/right hypothesis. as stated here, will hold up. First of all, it is based upon a much too simplistic understanding of hemispher specialization. Secondly, performing any music requires extensive "right" brain activity to be able coordinate the complex elements. There are a few very good books that begin to desribe the neurology of music and are written for (medically speaking) lay people, including "Your Brain on Music."
Hiram, I think the piano is still much more available for innovation - the guitar, even in standard tuning, is primarily limited to what one hand can play. On the piano, pending the skill level of the permormer, of course, both hands can be working independently, thus increasing the possibilities. |
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