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Daryl
Aloha
USA
28 Posts |
 Posted - 09/22/2008 : 12:03:04 PM
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"If you hit a wrong note, then make it right by what you play afterwards."
- Joe Pass
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2008 : 6:16:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hikabe
Professionals get paid not to make mistakes. If you are playing at a jam session or kani or hootenany, no big deal to make mistakes, try not to. If you are with the Philharmonic, your fired. That is a harsh reality for those who have dedicated their lives to perfection. People who are in orchestras do not and cannot make mistakes.
Many years ago, I used to produce radio broadcasts of a Midwestern symphony orchestra. After one concert where the french horn section sounded particularly ragged, I was chatting with the orchestra's general manager & conductor about it, knowing that I would have to edit in portions of a different night's recording for the final broadcast tape.
I mentioned that I had heard with some major symphonic ensembles, you screw up just once in concert, you're booted out. The manager fixed a glare at me and said, "then we would be left with an empty stage, wouldn't we?"
Even the pros can hiccup. I have a tape of a major American operatic soprano in concert, a member of the upper echelon of vocalists, utterly trashing a note in a performance of Mozart's Requiem, as she cracked on a high note that was supposed to be sung pianissimo. Didn't put an end to her career, however - but I bet she adjusted her warmup or practice strategy after that night.
cpatch said it best - an opportunity to learn. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2008 : 6:20:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RJS
Mistakes are not the standard in classical venues. If it were Rubenstein, Heiftiz, Rachmaninoff and dozens of others would have been out of jobs way early in their careers.
An excellent book that touches on some of these stories is "The Life and Death of Classical Music" by Norman Lebrecht.
Mistakes abound in the live recordings of Vladimir Horowitz. Didn't seem to harm his career or reputation. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2008 : 6:38:34 PM
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| Humans have become addicted to machinery. In the past 180 or so years, the machine designed to serve us has become our master. Music is communication, pure and simple. Imperfect folks imperfectly trading imperfect ideas trying to provoke an imperfect response. My Dad said that music was just meant to be fun between friends. At a great concert, that happens between the artist and the audience. Professionalism isn't necessarily measured by how well a person can perfectly reproduce a phrase or a melody, but how well one can recover from a mistake. |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2008 : 08:22:30 AM
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This topic has me wondering about a guest recital I have coming up in a few weeks. I offered to do two tunes, both on nylon, one will be slack key and the other classical. I have to choose the songs in about a week and commit to them.
This is where my nerves start to get jangled. I will not have trouble choosing a slack key number but if I attempt the classical one I have in mind (Etude 1, Villa-Lobos,) I could crash and burn on a quick middle section. I sometimes wonder if it is good or bad idea to push ones self to the edge of their ability, or to stay safe. |
Bob |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2008 : 08:57:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Haole_Boy
I sometimes wonder if it is good or bad idea to push ones self to the edge of their ability, or to stay safe.
Safety is a nice place to be - but for myself, I have to keep pushing to new and unfamiliar lands, in order to be a better player. YMMV. Either way, I hope you enjoy your recital experience. |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2008 : 10:08:42 AM
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| As was said earlier. Sometimes people don't listen that closley and if they do they may forgive it because the following phrases of the number lend to a forgetfulness on the part of the listener. If the mistake is subtle then just carry on and no one remembers when the mistake occurred. When we treat ourselves badly for making a mistake the audience feels that negative energy and it adds to the idea that we are junk. Most listeners are in awe of what we do and even mistakes are beyond the playing ability of most of them. When I hear someone make a mistake I just take it with a grain of salt and try not to be judgmental about it. At the end of the evening the wonderful and amazing sounds I heard are what I carry home after the night is done. To acknowledge our humanity is what connects us to our listeners. The mere fact that they may admire what we do elevates our condition as human beings. The idea that we make music for the enjoyment of others includes the making of mistakes. And I think our listeners love us all the more for it. No one likes a smart ass and that includes perfectionists in a musical performance. Just a few thoughts of my own on the matter this is not meant to chastise anyone. JUSPRESS |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 09/23/2008 10:11:44 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
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Allen M Cary
Lokahi
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2008 : 12:30:27 PM
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I think one of the problems we have is that the education system has engrained a fear of mistakes in us. I know this is the problem that many people have when speaking a foreign language. When they learned it in school, they were always graded down for making mistakes; yet we make them all the time when speaking our own native tongues. I think this tends to carry over into our performing music. With language the important thing is to communicate--the same goes for the music. In general, someone really has to know the piece intimately to hear most mistakes. If you completely trip up just smile, act human and go on.
Aloha,
Allen |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2008 : 12:35:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by noeau
When I hear someone make a mistake I just take it with a grain of salt and try not to be judgmental about it.
When I hear an acclaimed performer make a mistake, I think, "oops - wow, I guess they are human after all, I don't need to put them on a pedestal or worship them, I shouldn't be afraid to talk with them, which might give me a better chance to learn something from them..."
Actually, I never get that far. I really think, "oops, that was..." - then I get distracted by the next cool notes they are playing. That's what noeau just said, isn't it? |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2008 : 1:15:14 PM
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| Dem opry guyz sing about perfect, lidat guy Placido Domingo or Andrea Bocelli. Dey sing nani but. Me, I'd druther lissen to real guyz like Paul or Duke and Jay and Jesse and Keonepax etc. They notice mistakes and pukas and stuff that I don't. I am the customer. They are giving me the product that I want. And I dunno if dey make mistakes. Ainokea. Jus press. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2008 : 08:23:07 AM
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Bob,
My take on the etude is this: Two factors to consider are overall context of you "career" and motivation. Are you playing at your teacher's semi annual recital, or is this a major professional step? How much is at stake pulling off a really good performance? (If it were professional, I would go with an expressive performance of something you're sure you can do, especially with only a few weeks to learn. If it's a student recital, the bar is different.) Then the next question is why do you want to push yourself - trying to prove something? (Almost everytime I did that it backfired) trying to become a better musician? (excellent motive.) Just trying to have fun? (Just press) Hope this makers sense, but I'm on post-op vicodin |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2008 : 11:45:01 AM
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quote:
and yeah, practice giggling when ya goof. Just like Led.
And all this time I thought he was amused because he discovered a new lick. No wait, that's the point!
Larry |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2008 : 08:26:28 AM
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Thanks Raymond. It helps when you put everything in perspective like that.
For those that do not know Raymond, he is a generous man with his time and I correspond with him about performing issues and song arrangements from time-to-time. He is also a very good performing guitar player.
The recital is a college mid-term classical guitar recital for students only....I was invited to play as a guest. No big deal except for ego and wanting to please the teacher.
If you have heard the Etude then you know there is a very fast decending run in the middle of the piece. I can play all the other parts well except that section. I was thinking that if I commited to this somewhat difficult tune I would push myself into a practice regimen causing me to improve (motivation by fear).
However, after practicing hard for four days, I can still only manage 50/50 execution. So, I decided to pass on it for now and play two Hawaiian songs--one from Ozzie and one from Chllingworth.
Talk about a long term project though--I learned Etude #1 more than 20 yrs ago and have never been able to play it well. Surprisingly, now at the age of 58, I can nearly play it. So, I aint gonna quit tryin now--know what I mean :). I will play it someday--just not next weekend. |
Bob |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2008 : 10:46:32 AM
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| Sounds right for me -- and I have no doubt that you will do the Etude. That's another one of those pieces that is being played faster and faster. Artistic quality is so much more important and difficult, but technical flair is flashy and it's winning out. Also, I think people are studying guitar more seriously at a younger age so the technical skills just get so much better. |
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