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guitarded
Ha`aha`a
USA
1799 Posts |
 Posted - 02/13/2009 : 07:31:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Medeiros
Eh bradda Ed,
No get too niele. You not supposed to ask questions lidat. Bumbai you gonna put aunty folks on da spot . Can cause legal trouble too. But mobetta you wen ax da question den me. You get's it. Waz won good won though.
Da professa
You see Unko Professah, I might be one small pitot as far as da world of Hawaiian music goes, but I know how valuable one sacrificial garut like me can be. Mahalo fo da confirmashen.
Auntie Maria, please disregard my earlier question to you.  |
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abrigoohana
Lokahi
271 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 08:04:29 AM
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I'll add something small here. This is why my family is against competition, especially when it comes to artistic expression (which includes music). It's always a matter of opinion, and you know what they say about opinions! And no, I don't believe that competition brings out the best in people either.
Aloha, Lanet ~ mom of the Abrigo Ohana |
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PearlCityBoy
Lokahi
USA
432 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 10:29:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Auntie Maria
PearlCityBoy -- regarding "(1) I like Uncle Keith Haugen’s response to Cataluna’s article:"...Keith Haugen should have added his name to the list, as he is himself a mainland transplant.
As for the Na Hoku Hanohano Awards for ki ho`alu, in recent times (since at least the 1990s) those awards have been given by Milton Lau and his sponsors. The recipients are not determined by the Hawai`i Academy of Recording Arts. Milton is responsible for the annual slack key festivals which are staged throughout Hawai`i.
Mahalo Aunty Maria for the clarification. Oh, boy, now it gets interesting . . .
(1) Who died and left Milton Lau (and his “court” of sponsors) “King” of the slack key award at the Hokus?
(2) How do the “real” slack key artists and/or ”masters” feel about this? Is it pono? Did they still accept the award anyway? Is that hypocritical?
(3) Why is that award even presented at the Hokus when it doesn’t have anything to do with them? Why don’t they pass out the award at Milton’s slack key festivals instead?—Seems more appropriate there to me.
(4) With this insight, perhaps now I know why two of the slack key albums he produced are called “Hawaiian Slack Key Kings - Master Series.”
(a) Incidentally, have you heard some of the artists on the albums? Lot of questionable “Kings” and/or “Masters” on there. Questionable slack key “royal” lineage too.
(b) How about some of the songs? Don’t sound like slack key to me, and actually some of Daniel Ho’s stuff sounds closer to slack key than what I’ve heard.
(c) On Vol. 1, it has a song by Jack Johnson. Unfortunately, I can’t hear any clips, but I didn’t know Jack Johnson was a slack key artist, much less a slack key “King”. Or was Jack put on the album to sell more of this “slack key” album? Is that “selling out” under the guise of slack key?
(5) While I’m at it, let’s talk about the slack key festivals. I listened to the 2007 and 2008 festivals that were streamed via the internet. There were several acts that not only weren’t slack key, but also weren’t even Hawaiian. Also, many non-traditional slack key (whatever that means) performances. Did you hear some of the “innovative” Hapa stuff? Interesting guitar work (not my cup of tea) but not slack key and not Hawaiian.
So now you’ve got John Doe from Middle America USA, Kumiko Yanagi from Japan, as well as folks from all over the rest of the planet (including Hawaii residents and native Hawaiians) listening in to the prestigious “Hawaiian Slack Key” festival from Hawaii. I mean what could be more authentic and traditional, right? This is the source. These sincere folks from all over the world are legitimately interested in hearing and learning about this beautiful music and tradition.
Then they hear some of the songs that are not even remotely slack key going on but being promoted in a slack key concert, and they ignorantly think that’s slack key too. So now, let’s blame these “ignorant” people for not knowing what “real” slack key is. Is this the pot calling the kettle black? Is this pono? Is this music integrity? Wonder why there’s confusion all over the world, including Hawaii? Before we start blaming ignorant Grammy voters, and singling out the artists that won the Grammy for criticism, how about cleaning up what’s going on in Hawaii and the local music scene first.
(6) If you’re going to publicly call out and criticize Tia Carrere and Daniel Ho, are you going to likewise call out Milton Lau and those other artists on his albums and in the festivals for not being forthright or pono in their promotion of “traditional” slack key and for associating themselves or even self-promoting themselves with the dubious royal titles like “King” and “Master?” By the way, isn’t “Slack Key Master” as overused as “Supermodel”? I bet both titles sell more “product.”
Hey, I’m just calling it as I see it. Maybe I’m misguided on some of these points, but I’m open to seeing evidence to the contrary. I don’t have any issue with the discussion about Daniel Ho (who incidentally is one of my teachers at the Kahumoku workshops) and whether he’s playing slack key or not. What I am pointing out is that many of those criticisms can be applied to a lot of prominent folks in the slack key and Hawaiian music industry. If you’re going to call out Tia and Daniel, in fairness why don’t you call out the others? That’s my beef.
FYI, I have nothing personal against Milton Lau. He just happened to be mentioned in response to my original inquiry. I think he’s done a tremendous amount to help promote slack key and Hawaiian music for over 20 years. I’ve met him in person when he addressed us Kahumoku workshop students prior to one of the Maui Slack Key festivals, which our workshop class performed in. Also, for all I know, he could be blood ‘ohana to me since I have lots of Pake and Hawaiian relatives in the islands.
Aloha,
Doug
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 10:44:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by PearlCityBoy
Kumiko Yanagi from Japan . . .
Is she related to Fate ?  |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 11:10:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sm80808
quote:
Originally posted by PearlCityBoy
Kumiko Yanagi from Japan . . .
Is she related to Fate ?
Oh! You know her too. She stay up Punahou School. Fo reel you know. |
Edited by - Peter Medeiros on 02/13/2009 11:13:42 AM |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 12:42:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sirduke58
at least I get plenty bathroom breaks & check out the food & product booths breaks
Gee, and possibly miss out when Led takes out his autoharp and plays "O Maria". Not me. I stay in my seat. Seriously. |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 1:24:38 PM
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I have a solution to the "Master" dilemma...
In the psych literature on creativity and performance, there is very often a referrence to a rule of thumb .. it takes 10,000 hours of working at any one field to master it. So... let's set a rule. Anyone who can document 10,000 hours of playing slack key can call themself a "Master." |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 2:05:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RJS
I have a solution to the "Master" dilemma...
In the psych literature on creativity and performance, there is very often a referrence to a rule of thumb .. it takes 10,000 hours of working at any one field to master it. So... let's set a rule. Anyone who can document 10,000 hours of playing slack key can call themself a "Master."
Heck, that's only an hour a day every day for 27.4 years.
That explains why one of Led's albums is called "Grandmaster Slack Key Guitar", minus the few minutes spent on the autoharp and ukulele. |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
Edited by - markwitz on 02/13/2009 2:37:09 PM |
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Pali
Akahai
64 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 5:30:07 PM
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Aloha All...
Hope all is well with you all, couple of notes, thoughts to share...
Yeah-the Grammys topic has been circulating a lot as of recent. As most of you know, I'm on the Board for HARA (Hokus) and this year, I'm the VP and co-chair for the show. Honestly, way back, I used to kinda complain and when people asked me about being a HARA member, I said, the only benefit, I think, was to vote for your own or friend's cds, period. So, I decided to shut my own mouth and started doing stuff rather than whine about stuff. In regards to the Grammys, it's such a double-edge sword to judge the "best" of Hawaiian music by standards outside of Hawai`i. As for Daniel Ho and Tia, a lot of folks don't realize he has a network in LA over 20+ years and is a session musician/producer there and he really can't be blamed for that. Tia came off of her "Dancing with the Stars" stint and obviously has much Hollywood/LA recognition. I know a lot of folks weren't happy about it, and I was there at the Grammys. I'd really wanted Ledward/Mike or Amy to win, personally.
One of the worst things that artists can do is boycott the awards, boycott remitting CDs/becoming voting members. This will ensure that what happened the last 4/5 years will happen again. If we reach a specific amount of voters, we can lobby to get our own chapter with NARAS, on top of that, with enough submissions, we can get separate categories (e.g. male/female/instrumental etc). Of course this will take a few years to happen... but it can.
Also, in regards to the naming preferences of some of the slack key albums out there, trust me when I say I'm definitely not king, of anything. Even my beloved dog, he's pretty much the boss. I don't know where this started or why, and Milton is a dear friend-but for me, I don't know how that came about. I'm glad to be on the CD as I'd written that song for my pup that passed (Supey Aloha), and it's in open D tuning.
As for the festivals, and not playing slack key there-yup. We don't. For "Maunaloa" my top 3 strings are G slack and bottom 3 are standard, and "Island Days" is in open D which we've done before. Do I play slack key, yes-but I only know G and D stuff. We don't do them at the festivals as I'm always playing with the band and they don't play in slack. Should we be part of the festival? I don't know to be honest. We enjoy playing them and on some of the neighbor island ones, getting to jam (solo) with some of the greats is a lot of fun. I believe Milton once said that while the focus is slack key, he tries to offer a variety of Hawaii musicians that do/don't. Henry, I do know for a fact, can play slack. I guess the definition of slack also comes into play. If you're in "alternate tuning" and playing stuff is this considered slack key? If you're in "alternate tuning" and playing only Hawaiian stuff, is that, then, considered slack key? I write/record stuff in open D/G as it's good for my vocal range and the fact I like the way it sounds.. and like the Beamers did early on, they used it as a basis of their vocal songs-which I like doing as well. Trust me, I know slack key when I hear it, but if you're in an alternate tuning, does it count if you're playing different style of music that's non Hawaiian or contemporary/Hawaiian? A king I'm not, a master of Call or Duty 4 on Xbox, not really, but I got as high as ranking 93rd on Xbox live at one point :)
Masters. That's a tough one.. and I know for a fact that Ledward didn't care for the title of that CD as well. Who is/were "masters of slack key"
IMHO: (if I had to choose 7 "masters")
1. Gabby (duh)
2. Atta Isaacs
3. Leonard Kwan
4. Sonny Chillingsworth
5. Ledward Kaapana
6. Cyril Pahinui
7. Raymond Kane
But you know what the best criteria for a slack key master is? You ask any of the 7 on the above list, the fact that none of them would ever, ever say there were "Masters" best qualifies them as just that, Masters. Humble, always willing to share etc. I'm very happy and honored to have gotten to know many of the great slack key players out there doing the festivals, Lord knows for all the guys that have been playing and performing slack, there probably about 2000x's the amount that play just as well at home, playing at parties and for friends, "small kine."
As far as going to the bathroom or getting food during our set, trust me, avoid the lumpias.. they're SUPER oily and will stick to the side of your stomach for a week.... do, however, go for the shave ice :)
Aloha & A Hui Hou!
P.
p.s. oh, speaking of streaming the festival, we're planning on doubling the resolution to 640 x 480 (I think). The plus is it'll look a lot better/larger, the bad news is, you'll have to be on 1MB connection via DSL or CableModem, which I believe everyone should be. |
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guitarded
Ha`aha`a
USA
1799 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 6:08:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Pali
p.s. oh, speaking of streaming the festival, we're planning on doubling the resolution to 640 x 480 (I think). The plus is it'll look a lot better/larger, the bad news is, you'll have to be on 1MB connection via DSL or CableModem, which I believe everyone should be.
Howzit braddah Pali. Speaking of streaming, do you know how soon you'll be giving the all clear for Youtuber Hoaikane to begin posting Pakele Live vids once again? I know there are many out there, possibly thousands of people like myself, including many here on TP, who really miss being able to view the shows that for whatever reasons we weren't able to watch on the date when they were streamed live. I know that selected consolidated segments of past shows have been showing and streaming during various times and days of the week on OC16 TV, but again trying to match our personal lives with that schedule isn't as easy as clicking on a Youtube link.
Anyway, mahalo in advance for any insight, and mahalo for doing what you do in perpetuating the culture of Hawaii. |
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Pali
Akahai
64 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 6:13:00 PM
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Howzit guitarded!!!
Well, funny you should ask, I'm actually trying to get that resolved by the start of March.. *fingers crossed* I'll post on here/email Hoaikane when it's a go. Probably in a week or two as well, we're going to go to double resolution on the streams.
Mahalo for watching! |
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guitarded
Ha`aha`a
USA
1799 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 6:23:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Pali
Howzit guitarded!!!
Well, funny you should ask, I'm actually trying to get that resolved by the start of March.. *fingers crossed* I'll post on here/email Hoaikane when it's a go. Probably in a week or two as well, we're going to go to double resolution on the streams.
Mahalo for watching!
Sounds like a winnah brah! Hoh wait till Auntie Wanda sees this. Da kleenex going be flying. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 12:54:19 AM
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| Yeah, bring on da keenex. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 07:45:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Pali
1. Gabby (duh)
2. Atta Isaacs
3. Leonard Kwan
4. Sonny Chillingsworth
5. Ledward Kaapana
6. Cyril Pahinui
7. Raymond Kane
But you know what the best criteria for a slack key master is? You ask any of the 7 on the above list, the fact that none of them would ever, ever say there were "Masters" best qualifies them as just that, Masters. Humble, always willing to share etc.
Brada,
Chai wait, go try rewrite dis won odda wise you like tell us how you wen talk to dees guys and how you like us go chai go talk to dees guys? Kinda hahd fo ask when five outta da seven stay make.  |
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guitarded
Ha`aha`a
USA
1799 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 10:45:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Medeiros
quote:
Originally posted by Pali
1. Gabby (duh)
Humble, always willing to share etc.
Brada,
Chai wait, go try rewrite dis won odda wise you like tell us how you wen talk to dees guys and how you like us go chai go talk to dees guys? Kinda hahd fo ask when five outta da seven stay make.
I recall seeing a video somewhere that showed Cyril sharing about how his dad would always detune his guitar strings before putting it away for the night. In his own house.  I found that quite amusing. |
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