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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2003 : 10:57:07 PM
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Hooray! I got it! There it was in the mailbox, so you folks who preordered will be seeing yours soon. I'm listening now. A quick review of track one - it sounds like a very good singer songwriter song with a Hawaiian flavor to the guitar accompaniment. Same for track 2 except piano predominates.
I like it, but so far it's not the slack key that I'm used to.
Further thoughts now that I've heard the whole CD:
It's really easy to hit the quote icon instead of the edit icon! OK, thoughts about the CD.
There were very few pieces that were slack key, his choice of songs had a strong personal meaning, but to me, an outsider with only one other CD of his, what he did here was showcase his vocal talents. I didn't know Keola Beamer had such a strong, resonant voice, very nice to listen to. I think he played guitar on every track, but it often was hard to pick out of the mix. It was his vocals that stood out. More than expanding slack key, Keola is expanding his music as a whole and showing another side of his talents. The tracks still kept the slack key rhythms and nahenahe feel.
He included "Real Old Style" and "Guava Tree" which were on his debut album in 1972 also named Real Old Style. I compared "Real Old Style" on both CDs, it sounded different, but I think the arrangement was the same. I hope someone with better trained ears and a better, less clumsy way of playing two separate CDs can compare and comment. |
Pauline |
Edited by - Pauline Leland on 07/16/2003 12:43:48 AM |
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rd2ruin
Akahai
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2003 : 03:00:28 AM
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In respect to the album itself. I understand it's mostly a collection of 1970's covers, so it doesn't surprise me that it isn't the Keola you're used to listening to. That it wasn't released under Dancing Cat was my first suspicion, and now Pauline has confirmed it. Thanks for the review, and let us know how it sounds after a couple dozen listenings!
As far as this 'definition' of slack key goes. Geez, I feel like Carrot Top stepping into a debate between Da Vinci and Monet... but I missed it over the first two rounds, and I'd like to chime in. The whole analogy to art was an offer I couldn't refuse. I'd share why the analogy is only partly on the money, but that will have me all over the place, and it's tough enough to organize my thoughts on this as it is.
I dont think that defining a musical style is possible. Exposure to any form of art ensures change. To put it in an extreme way.... The only way you can quantify a musical style, with regards to what it is, and what it isn't, is to invent one, and not let anyone else hear it. Because the second another person hears it, it will be changed.
Robert Johnson wasn't the first to play acoustic blues, just the first to record it. Gatemouth Brown, Albert Collins, John Lee Hooker, Koko Taylor, Johnny Winters, BB King, Buddy Guy and Eric Clapton are but a handful of influencial blues artists that were born from Robert's records though. But these artists all had heard the same music, and all took it wildly different ways. But it's still the blues. Bo Diddley commented once that Stevie Ray was one the greatest blues musicians (I intentionally didn't say guitarist) of all time, when SRV was 17! I have Kenny Wayne Sheppard CDs, and I have Mr. Johnsons. No, I wouldn't call Rock and Roll the blues. Yes, the blues are still alive and well. It's about the message of the music, not the bottle the message comes in.
I think it's healthy that as all fans of slack key, it is important to preserve the fundamental underlying _themes_ in slack key music (the lush valleys of Moloka'i, the evenings on the strip in Lahaina) within very loose and flexible signatures of musical themes (6th's, alternative bass lines, etc) just as the blues have prevailed using underlying themes of 'blond/black/redhead/old woman of mine done me wrong' using very loose and flexible signatures of musical themes (12 bar, also alternative bass lines, etc). Far more important than deciding to let our own personal preferences to dictate what we should, or should not, call slack key.
Yes, I'm aware that I'm the 'new kid' on the block. And as far as expertise goes, I'm no where near any of you. But I dont see the issue as preservation of a musical style versus progression of a musical style. I dont see it as an issue of historical reference versus technical innovation. I see it as preserving the message of aloha within the bottle of slack key.
Muddy Waters didn't come in and say, "I wanna rehearse." He used to look at me and say, "Let's just play the blues. That's all you need to do."
- Buddy Guy
That's all we need to do.
Cheers!
- Greg |
When you get a moment, could you do me a favor and explain to me what I was just talking about? |
Edited by - rd2ruin on 07/18/2003 03:03:48 AM |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2003 : 09:02:46 AM
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quote:
Yes, I'm aware that I'm the 'new kid' on the block. And as far as expertise goes, I'm no where near any of you.
Nah, no such thing. Good points. Thanks sharing your thoughts. |
Andy |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2003 : 12:41:59 PM
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Actually, I have very little expertise and far too many opinions.  |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Maureen
Aloha
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2003 : 12:47:54 AM
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Lovely album! I found Keola's music a year ago May, and I haven't been able to stop playing it every day for over a year now. I have literally blown out five CD players just on his music. I have never been like that about any other music I have heard. I learned what Mana is, and his music just plain has a very unusual and healing Mana. I have his on-line lessons and two book/CD instruction sets now. Am going a bit slowly but getting it (from playing rhythm only).
Mohala Hou is lovely, very mellow, very quieting. I must be one of Keola's more enthusiastic fans! With my very busy schedule, it's hard to find a lot of time to practice guitar, so it will take me awhile to get it down really well, but I am determined!
Keola, if you look on here, I just don't have words for what you share with us. Nothing defines it. My pipe dream is to see you live some day and even more to jam with you. (Where's the pipe?) I'm just kidding
Mahalo no Mohalo. Mohalo Mahalo. And yes, Mo did Holler Hou, in the last song, the pickup from Kahuli Aku/Pua Polu or something into the 'Opae song!!! I holler every time I hear it. I haven't picked it out completely yet.
Me ke Aloha,
Haumana #92 |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2003 : 01:32:58 AM
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Maureen you're still missing his video! Also, in case you're not aware of it, if you have the time and the money you can spend a week with Keola and friendsjamming and learning slack key/dream guitar/whatever at Keola's Aloha Music Camp August 10-16. See http://www.alohamusiccamp.com for details.
And for the record, I am also a big fan of Keola's music regardless of what you choose to label it. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2003 : 7:53:31 PM
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I find it interesting that Mohala Hou started this long debate before anyone had heard it!
So -- now that you've heard it, waddaya think?
I can tell you from very personal experience that there's slack key guitar all over the CD -- sometimes three or four of 'em on the same track.
Does it sound like a Dancing Cat CD? Nope. George Winston's vision is to record every slack key player in a solo, usually instrumental setting. Is that the only way slack key is ever played in Hawai`i? Nope again. In fact, I can only think of a few old recordings of solo, instrumental slack key.
Remember that all of those wonderful old songs were new once. And all those wonderful old-style players were considered radical for the changes they made.
I can't speak for Keola's vision, other than to direct you to listen to his complete back catalog. He's covered a lot of ground since Real Old Style.
Oh, and Robert Johnson's main contribution to the blues was his innovation, not the fact that he played like everyone else.
Onward.
Mark |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2003 : 8:57:17 PM
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Mark,
Maybe we've been too influenced by George Winston's vision? Could be. I admit that Dancing Cat's recordings form my definition of slack key to the point it is a nuisance.
I'd like some instruction on how to play along to a song in much the same way as strumming a uke to a song. Something really basic, simple minded, no frills, and then gradually learn how to add the frills and eventually how to build solo works. For you old timers out there, did you ever use Jerry Silverman's books on how to play folk style guitar? That kind of book that leads you along slowly but you are making real music, accompanying music, as you learn.
All the books dump you right into fancy solo work. Nice. But, for me, limiting. If I ever get 2 songs nailed, goody, I can play two songs. That's what sent me off uking instead for nearly a year.
Well, maybe this is too far off topic. Just venting. And wishing.
Oh, you're that Mark. Maybe I'm venting to someone who can do something about the dearth of really basic, here's how you do the equivalent of strumming but in slack key tunings and fingerish styling. Even just pure Taropatch tuning. Simple songs to teach the chords and how to handle them. Like I said, just wishing. |
Pauline |
Edited by - Pauline Leland on 07/21/2003 9:22:54 PM |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 12:24:49 PM
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Aloha e Pauline,
Sounds to me like you are describing what one learns over years, usually as a kid, in true kanikapila situations – something that is unavailable to us isolated mainlanders! It *is* frustrating, I sympathize. You might already have thought of what I have, below, but for what it's worth, eia ku'u wahi mana'o [here's my own (modest) thought]:
What I understand about playing along at the most basic level is that you can do a simple picking pattern while fretting the chord that belongs in that part of the song. Uncle Sol taught us a 5-2-4-1 pattern for the G chords, and a 6-2-4-1 pattern for the D7 chords, and a 4-2-3-1 pattern for the C chord. This basic pattern, with its 4/4 time and the alternating bass, will get you thru many, many Taropatch-tuned songs.
From there, you prepare yourself by learning the chords positions in their different locations on the fretboard, so you know how to do at least two of each. This gives you some variety.
By the way, it is really, really helpful if you know how the song goes, so you can predict which chord comes next and get there in time. The melody, most basically of all. This again is where us folks far away have trouble, because our exposure to songs is limited. Listening and learning from recordings is the only way I know to do, way over here.
Ornamenting from there on, you can vary your chord positions; discover that a D7 vamp could be a harmony to D7-ish phrase of the song; substitute chimes for their more ordinary fretted cousins; etc.
Another common approach to playing along in a colorful way, is to play "up high" when the lead is playing "down low", and vice-versa.
How to practice all this alone??? Good question. Practicing moving around (alone) with these fundamentals in mind is one thing to do. Another thing to do is find a recording of a song that you like and can deal with, and try playing along with the CD. You can go over and over until you've had enough. It's real hard at first, but keep trying. It does get better.
Hope this helps you begin somewhere....
aloha,
Sarah
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 12:48:02 PM
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Aloha e Sarah,
Thank you! I'm printing this off. This is great.
Mahalo! |
Pauline |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 1:27:02 PM
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This kanikapila discussion is worthy of its own topic...I know a lot of people will be interested in participating. Andy, can you move the last few posts to their own topic?
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Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 3:13:28 PM
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Aloha e Mark,
Mohala Hou didn't really start this long debate. It isn't about the album, it is about Keola's musical vision. This kind of discussion about Keola's approach to slack key has been going on for *years* on the internet - whenever a new album of his is brought up on a newsgroup or forum. And this one *has* been a discussion rather than a dogfight. It has been much more civil and thoughtful than any of the rest. If you want to really get annoyed :-), do a search on alt.music.hawaiian archives.
Believe me, it will come up again, sometime, somewhere. Now, let's move on to whether Barry Flannigan plays slack key, or not. :-) (FWIW, I think he does - mostly).
...Reid |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 3:57:04 PM
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Craig, if you mean discussing how to jam along in group playing, I agree! In fact I'm about to start a thread myself if Andy doesn't beat me to it.
Done. http://www.taropatch.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1035
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Pauline |
Edited by - Pauline Leland on 07/22/2003 4:31:22 PM |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 4:00:50 PM
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| I'm not able to move the posts under a particular thread. I can only move an entire thread so please feel free to begin a new topic. |
Andy |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 4:17:21 PM
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I, for one, have made a decision to not respond to any more posts that have to do with "is X playing real slack key." Part of the reason is that I am getting more clear on what I believe about this type of discussion, namely, "Listen to somehing. If you like it, or are curious about it, or whan to "grow" with it, keep listening, maybe even recommend it to friends. If it irritates you, stop listening. Don't refer it to others. Communities of interest will naturally form and gravitate to styles with are consonant with their vision." Secondly, I want to save my wrists for playing, and typing is just not good for my wrists. Therefore, I need to more carefully choose when it is worth the wear and tear on my wrists.
Raymond
San Jose |
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