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ricdoug
`Olu`olu
USA
513 Posts |
 Posted - 12/12/2011 : 7:03:25 PM
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I forgot to thank you for posting the sfgate link, Wanda. I shared it on my FaceBook wall two days ago. While I do believe Travelocity felt they were being light hearted with their marketing, it was nice of Steven to educate them. If Travelocity had not changed their course, I simply would have not considered them for travel arrangements in the future.
To me, it's akin to the use of the word Christmas in marketing for the Christmas season. Stores that use Happy Holidays, but not Christmas (along with Happy Holidays/Christmas, ETC...) don't receive my patronage until they change. I never scold employees at those stores, but do voice my dismay in writing, e-mail, fax and by phone to their corporate headquarters. I also sign petitions with other like thinking individuals.
Everyone has the freedom of speech. How they use it can impact their business, along with other things. Good job, Steven and Wanda. Glad I could be of help, in my own small way. Ric |
It's easier to ask for forgiveness, than permission! |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 11:29:36 PM
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I'm glad they're pulling the advertisement. I think it doesn't look good for a travel company to look ignorant about local traditions, no matter what the country. If there's a Scottish version which includes haggis and kilts, well I wish they'd rethink that too. Lazy stereotyping of this nature certainly wouldn't encourage me to visit anywhere.
Interesting about the 'Happy Holidays' thing. It had never crossed my mind that anyone would find this annoying. We don't really have that expression in the UK but I'd always thought of it as a charming American expression. Not everyone celebrates Christmas, on account of being Jewish, Muslim, Pagan, Atheist or whatever, but almost everyone has a midwinter celebration of some kind. Saying 'Happy Holidays' strikes me as an example of typical American friendliness, and desire to include everyone. I suppose the nearest equivalent in the UK is 'Season's Greetings', which is a fairly common thing to see on cards, banners, etc. |
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ricdoug
`Olu`olu
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2011 : 9:24:48 PM
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Trev, CHRISTmas is the name of the season for a reason. Over 80% of the United States agrees. That's a large lot to offend with marketing otherwise here. BTW, this DOUGLAS was born in the port of Edinburgh  |
It's easier to ask for forgiveness, than permission! |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2011 : 12:23:00 AM
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Hi Ric. I take your point, but I think 'It's in the name' is an oversimplification. After all, Easter is named after Eostre. A pagan fertility God(ess)? And celebrated by fertility symbols like rabbits and eggs. Should pagans object to Christians wishing people a Happy Easter?
Christmas was (another) pagan festival long before it was called Christmas. And some Christians (Jehovah's witnesses for instance) don't celebrate 'Christmas' at all, precisely because of this reason.
I won't use the expression 'happy holidays'. Partly because in my country 'holidays' means what Americans would call 'vacation', so it's a different thing, but also because I wouldn't wish to cause offence.
To all my international cousins in music, whether they be Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Pagan, or whether (like me) they don't believe in any gods, my very best wishes for whatever they might call the midwinter season!
Ric, I've been to Edinburgh many times! usually for the Festival. It's a very beautiful place and I always love going there. I've known some excellent musicians from Edinburgh too. In particular I'll wish YOU a happy hogmanay!
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2011 : 07:19:32 AM
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Trev - When I lived out in the country near Eugene, OR, we did a wrenning ceremony for Yule and to welcome in the new year. "Where are you going, siad Fessel to Foze" and all that. More apt for the winter solstace, eh?
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keaka |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2011 : 10:33:07 AM
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| where are you going said Milder to Malder... |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 07:21:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Trev
Saying 'Happy Holidays' strikes me as an example of typical American friendliness, and desire to include everyone.
It is, for most of us. Trevor, please understand that most Americans are still proud to include everyone.
Here's a "holiday" story for you: In December 1993, one of the few Jewish families in Billings, Montana put a menorah in their 5-year-old son’s bedroom window, on a block lined with Christmas lights on every other house. Fortunately, the boy was not yet in his bed that evening when a cinderblock was tossed through the window.
The parents called the police, who warned them that the local “Christian Aryan” supremacists had also graffiti’d the only synagogue in town. The cops suggested the family remove any Hanukkah decorations for their own safety.
By the next morning, neighbors had helped repair the damage and the menorah was back in its place. By the end of the week every house on the block had a menorah in its window. And by the end of the month, over 6000 homes and several churches in this small city displayed menorahs.
It’s true that most of us in this country are Christian. But it’s also true that most of us are far too busy this month to fret about whether someone who only wants to wish us happiness uses the proper wording for their wish, much less whether we have to stand in line at the shopping mall next to folks who might have a different faith.
Happy holidays to you.
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 07:55:26 AM
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Interesting note: "Christmas" is not mentioned in the New Testament, but Hannukah is - John 10:22.
Every day is a "holiday", especially if you can play music with your friends.
BTW, I went to the Sons of Norway for the annual Lutfisk dinner. ONO! |
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 09:25:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
Every day is a "holiday", especially if you can play music with your friends.
BTW, I went to the Sons of Norway for the annual Lutfisk dinner. ONO!
Mmmm. I do love me some lutefisk, but it's been a long time. Were the folks at the Sons of Norway singing a carol that starts like this, Kory? It goes to the tune of "O Tannenbaum":
O Lutefisk, O Lutefisk, how fragrant your aroma,
O Lutefisk, O Lutefisk, you put me in a coma...
I think I learned this one in Minnesota 30 years ago. It goes on kinda like that and has almost as many verses as some of the two-page wonders in "He Mele Aloha", but I only put the first part cause that's all I can remember.
Besides, if I put all the rest I might get another citation from the culture police.
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Edited by - mike2jb on 12/17/2011 09:48:21 AM |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 10:17:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
Interesting note: "Christmas" is not mentioned in the New Testament, but Hannukah is - John 10:22.
Every day is a "holiday", especially if you can play music with your friends.
BTW, I went to the Sons of Norway for the annual Lutfisk dinner. ONO!
Lutfisk!!!??? UGH!  |
keaka |
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ricdoug
`Olu`olu
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 6:44:39 PM
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Nothing about CHRISTmas is pagan, otherwise it would be called PAGANmas or something else.
My point is that marketiers cannot ignore their market, whether it's race, religion, creed or some other form of separation. Ignorating the 80% CHRISTian population of the United States is stupid beyond recognition. I have no issue with Lowes marketing a Muslim broadcast, as long as they market at least 50% CHRISTian broadcasts. Otherwise they will lose my business, too. It's calculated how this works. Ric |
It's easier to ask for forgiveness, than permission! |
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fred d
Akahai
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2011 : 9:48:49 PM
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It seem that most have way to much time I didn't care one snit about who Lowes advitised on I just didn't like the program and I think travelocity adds are stupit talking cement statueds I love to watch hula girls ( and I do keep my eyes on the hand) right!it seem I can't even joke around without someone getting upset. Political correctness is BS If I don't like It I don't watch it and I shop for the best deal so far travelocity hasen't done that either. Disabled Vet who fought for out FREEDOM   |
fred davis |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2011 : 07:51:00 AM
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"Nothing about CHRISTmas is pagan..."
I was trying to ignore this, as I already offended one person on this thread, but...
No Biblical scholar would argue that Christ was actually born on December 25th. The celebration of Christ's birthday was moved to this date specifically to pre-empt the traditional solstice celebration held by virtually all Northern Hemisphere peoples on this date.
Even the modern Christmas tree had its orgin in the ancient European pagan celebration where the entrails of the May King, sacrificed to ensure the return of the sun, were strung on an evergreen tree. Thus the traditional red balls for organs and white strands for intestines.
However, in spite of my Native American heritage and family tradition of celebrating the solstice (no human sacrifices from us), I have no issues with the European invaders wishing each other a merry Christmas rather than the traditional solstice honoring of the power and beauty of the sun.
Unless, that is, they have issues about MY beliefs.
(Edit: As for where you shop, you certainly have the right to spend your money where you please. Just as I never spend money at places which blatantly use religion in their advertising.) |
Edited by - ypochris on 12/18/2011 07:53:51 AM |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2011 : 08:09:15 AM
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Mike, I've heard part of that song down through the years. Stan Boreson had a kids' show when I was younger (way back then) and he was a source of many Scandihoovian parodies and jokes. I just saw him last week, still "yust nuts".
Christmas was not popularly celebrated in the US until the time of Dickens and the mail-order catalogue. Alan Lomax noted in one of his folksong books that the Puritans eschewed (fancy word, eh? you like'm?) all holidays and that Christmas was not recognized as a "holiday" in Massachusetts until the 1870s.
Yesterday's innovation is today's policy and tomorrow's hallowed tradition.
My goal this time of year: TO NOT LET THE CALORIE WIN. |
Edited by - thumbstruck on 12/18/2011 08:10:49 AM |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2011 : 09:21:02 AM
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To ypochris: Thanks. I was thinking of responding along these lines, but I suspected someone would phrase it better than I, and you did.
To ricdoug: Your point about "CHRISTmas" (the name, and the Christian holiday itself) is valid - it's meant to be a celebration of that particular individual's birth. And I hope that doesn't prevent you from seeing how early Christians adopted the pre-Christian celebrations of midwinter for celebration of that date, even though (as ypochris pointed out) scholars say that Christ was not likely to be born at that time of year (wrong time of year for shepherds abiding their flocks, for the Roman census, and numerous factors).
To mike2jb: I think your assessment "it's possible to be ham-handed with humor, as this ad was" is a nice way of looking at it; I can understand why someone in their advertising chain thought this would be a funny ad, but it just didn't work. They failed to recognize that hula is a revered cultural tradition, not just a tourist activity. We can only hope that a few more people are now educated as to its value, its place of honor, and its worthiness of respect.
To fred d: A belated "thank you" for your service.
To slipry1: As you already know, I'm with you on dislike of lutefisk, which is why thumbstruck is happy to take our servings; he can have three helpings, guilt-free, and we don't have to ingest any more fish-jello. |
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Travelocity Ad Mocks Hula
