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Puluke
Aloha
USA
36 Posts |
 Posted - 01/05/2013 : 06:35:26 AM
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In Old Time Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar, Mark Nelson writes several song in one key/tuning such as Taro Patch but on the accompanying CD he plays them tuned down, with the same relative pitches. In the book's intro he says it's to keep things interesting. Is there a practical benefit, related to playing the one song by itself?
(Some songs are played tuned up, but that because the guitar he was playing needed it)
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Edited by - Puluke on 01/05/2013 06:40:58 AM |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2013 : 09:04:57 AM
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| The most common reason to tune down is to match one's vocal range. I suppose for non-vocal pieces, a particular guitar might be happier taken down a half-step or two (I've had a couple like that). |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2013 : 1:36:01 PM
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| I have two like that right now. It may be my imagination, but each (Taylor 814ce and Taylor GC7) seems to like Taro Patch F, or any variation (Open D tuned down 1 step, ditto with D6, G minor, G wahine, drop C, etc). At least, I like how they sound tuned down one step. I use medium strings, so tuning them down helps me, too. |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2013 : 10:08:13 AM
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I am always surprised that nobody these days (with, perhaps, the notable exception of jazz musicians) talks about keys in terms of the mood they convey.
Doesn't anybody feel differently when they play in F than when they play in G? Has nobody ever bumped up a song from G to A because A felt more hopeful or optimistic?
Key was certainly a consideration for classical composers. It was not random. And nobody really enjoys playing "Body and Soul" in Eb. But that is the key it was written in.
~ Bill |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2013 : 11:20:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hwnmusiclives
I am always surprised that nobody these days (with, perhaps, the notable exception of jazz musicians) talks about keys in terms of the mood they convey.
Doesn't anybody feel differently when they play in F than when they play in G? Has nobody ever bumped up a song from G to A because A felt more hopeful or optimistic?
Key was certainly a consideration for classical composers. It was not random. And nobody really enjoys playing "Body and Soul" in Eb. But that is the key it was written in.
~ Bill
Mood for classical composers related mostly to major or minor chords. Changing the key on, say a guitar, changes the tone combinations that result, and thus the mood. Even on a piano, there are keys which move the location of the melody on the keyboard. When a key is selected that results in the melody being very high or very low, it just doesn't sound right, sez the jazz pianist in me. This is also true of the way chords sound, which affects the mood, too. |
keaka |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2013 : 12:09:51 PM
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When you have more than a few tunes to play there is another reason to change key (with a capo).If you play all taropatch tunes then you may want to play a few with a capo to give your listeners a break from G.
Taropatch F with a capo? |
Bob |
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sirduke58
`Olu`olu
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2013 : 02:20:23 AM
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A couple of weeks ago I had decided to put new strings on one of my guitars. The idea of stopping at F Taropatch on the way to replacing the strings crossed my mind. There was a YouTube video of an old time slacker I had never heard of named Thomas Kamahaku playing "Ahulili" in F Taropatch. I figured hey why not borrow a few of his sweet chops & licks. I did & in the process found out that the full step down taropatch tuning gave my whole repertoire in that tuning a fresh new feel. The guitar opened up in the lowered tuning too. I love the deeper notes & fatness. The guitar stayed in that tuning for a whole week with the old strings.
Here's the video link of Thomas Kamahaku I mentioned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDw_1F-g-JI |
Hoof Hearted?...Was it you Stu Pedaso? |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2013 : 07:34:26 AM
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| Nahe nahe, Duke! |
keaka |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2013 : 07:36:26 AM
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| In addition to what I said above, tuning down (or up, for that matter) drives new reonances and overtone sequences that alter the sound coming from the instrument. |
keaka |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2013 : 07:39:19 AM
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Eh, Duke! T'anks, eh, foa da link! I know some of Uncle Tom's ohana and talked with him on the phone a few years ago before he passed. Kermet Apio met and jammed with him.
As far as keys and sound, I know that my D18 sounds good in E, so if in standard, capoing on the 4th fret makes for sweet sounds. Each guitar is unique, each tuning, also, as well as string gauge and material. Experimenting is recommended. |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2013 : 07:49:38 AM
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I spend a good deal of time with jazz players and singers, and the only time key is mentioned is when the leader calls a tune and a key ("Cherokee, B-flat"), someone asks the singer for a vocal key, or a horn player or a fiddler complains that it's hard to navigate a particular key. (And the really good players don't even mention key difficulties--they just modulate.) I've changed my vocal key for a number of songs, and the only change I notice is that I can reach the highest or lowest notes without hurting myself.
About "Body and Soul": A bit of Googling tells me that it was written with a particular singer in mind (Gertrude Lawrence), which means that its original key (D-flat, according to one source*) was probably set by her vocal range. There's a whole chapter on the song in Stardust Memories, but I'll have to dig my copy out of the midden-heap to confirm.
* http://www.jazzstandards.com/compositions-0/bodyandsoul.htm
I've heard classical-music commentators talk about this or that key having a particular character, but the only "emotional" effect I hear is the major-minor shift. Now, in the days before tempered tuning, maybe something was going on, but I've listened to enough renaissance music to have doubts even about that possiblity.
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2013 : 10:15:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sirduke58
A couple of weeks ago I had decided to put new strings on ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDw_1F-g-JI
Hi SirDuke.
Thks very much for that link. Awesome. |
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Claudia
Lokahi
USA
152 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2013 : 02:58:03 AM
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| Hi Duke, Mahalo for the link of Thomas Kamahaku - he's wonderful! |
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sirduke58
`Olu`olu
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2013 : 08:35:02 AM
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Hi Claudia & Ambrosius
I'm glad you guys like the video. I've already borrowed a bunch of the cool things he plays on "Ahulili" I don't think I'd be able to sing & play such intricate things simultaneously like he does but I'm very satisfied with just picking up stuff to plug into other songs. I love how he goes from the 2nd position G to the G7. I would have never thought of doing that on the 2nd & 3rd strings then incorporating the 1st string at the end of that movement. Too cool.
Did anyone notice that he is playing a 7 string guitar???? I can't tell from just looking at the video how the strings are set up. I'm guessing there's an extra bass string probably tuned to Bb........Full step down from how we use G taropatch & Drop C. |
Hoof Hearted?...Was it you Stu Pedaso? |
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2013 : 1:12:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sirduke58
Did anyone notice that he is playing a 7 string guitar???? I can't tell from just looking at the video how the strings are set up. I'm guessing there's an extra bass string probably tuned to Bb........Full step down from how we use G taropatch & Drop C.
I did note the poster said so, but quite frankly, I don't think he did. To me it seems like 6 strings. I don't find traces of a 7th string eighter on the video or the soundtrack. But it made me think, how would I use a 7th string in Taro Patch? The thought facinated me.
I fully agree with you SirDuke, the recording is full of goodies. |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
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Topic |
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Old Time Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar
