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Tetapu
Akahai
China
98 Posts |
 Posted - 03/17/2010 : 01:43:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by PearlCityBoy
Is this the American Idol dude, Jason Castro, in question? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVhepGj21Bw . He did change it up a bit, except for "chiminey"  . I think Iz's legacy is safe.
FYI, after the performance, Simon Cowell asked if that was a cover of the version from that "Hawaiian guy." If I recall correctly, Jason did acknowledge Iz by name and talked about how he liked the arrangement. The American Idol contestants do lots of covers, sometimes they're required to, and the judges are very critical of those who are too "karaoke" and don't "make it their own." Jason
right, that's the show, i just saw a little clip of it, but then i heard these guys playing it afterwards as their new favorite song, it wasnt that guys actually, it was another version of the song by IZ, but it wasn't IZ, and I think what they had done was probably search for the song that kid did online, then found that one, and claimed it as the original combination of those two songs.
but they were radical about it, when i mentioned IZ they would get angry and start shouting how that version they were playing was the original.
i kept telling them, NO WAY, this is a HAWAIIAN song.. MADE IN HAWAII, of course, we werent talking about either of those old songs separately, but the combination medley/ new song IZ made.
and the singer was some full on haole from the mainland, and not even a drop of Hawaiian in the entire song..
but they refuted my claim, they saw the kid on american idol more than I did, and they were radical nutcases about it not being a Hawaiian song.
anyway, my point is that it IS a Hawaiian song, and it is SO original of a composition that its totally IZ's song, and anyone who sings it is not copying the original two songs at all, but is Copying IZ |
Na Ke Akua E Malama Kakou |
Edited by - Tetapu on 03/17/2010 01:43:54 AM |
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Tetapu
Akahai
China
98 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 02:52:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Medeiros
All of the world's music or those performances which could be described as music have these four attributes: melody, harmony, rhythm and form. The question should be What makes the music Hawaiian?
what makes the music Hawaiian is an excellent question
what is the difference between IZ's original composition and a haole practically identical copy of it, same verses, same lyrics mostly, same timing, rhythm, melody, form, etc..
why is one totally Hawaiian, and one not even Hawaiian at all?
is it just because everything IZ looks at becomes super Hawaiian? or just because it was sung by Hawaiian? or used some local kine english?
or is there alot more to it than that?
let me tell you what i think the difference is:
Those two songs were selected at random because they expressed how the man, the legend, was feeling.
they could have been any two songs in the world.
he selected them from his great big Hawaiian heart, to express his feelings and emotions, and sing the song that was within his heart.
we all Know and love IZ, and when we hear that song, MANY Hawaiians feel the same kinda way in their hearts. It's a Hawaiian song because Hawaiians chose it to represent their condition, feeling, heart, dreams, emotions, in english.
they did the greatest flattery even possible to those songs, those two songs were blessed and granted admission into the Hawaiian halls of immortal 'recordings'.
they were lucky to be chosen
same with all songs Hawaiians choose. Hawaiians do everything for a reason, and everything has deeper meaning, and nothing is done out of stupid blind brainless ideas.
they dont choose songs because they are "cool" or "popular", they choose songs which represent the Hawaiian Nation, and Local Culture
including all haole songs ever sang by any Hawaiian group
everything is from the very deepest emotions and very deepest psychologies and the inner most hearts, and deepest desires.
nothing is fake or pretentious or vain, or haole
and what was the haole version for? vanity, thought it was cool, jump on a bandwagon, get some credit, some attention, steal some limelight, do some showboating,
its empty, hollow, and meaningless.. haole
and thats everything Hawaiian music is not.
you know its Hawaiian because even the very reason the song was chosen is chock full of kauna
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Na Ke Akua E Malama Kakou |
Edited by - Tetapu on 03/17/2010 03:10:38 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 04:32:48 AM
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Kaona in Hawaiian mele or poetry is what gives it the complexity that I love so dearly.
But Auntie has listened for a while now to your ravings and I feel I must speak out.
Haoles make crappy shallow music.
Some Hawaiians do.
Some of every ethnicity do.
Even Iz had a song about pakalolo tickles your feet. To me, a non-doper, that song is junk. Now am I a heretic becuase Iz had a song that I think is junk? No. I still love Iz for all he did. Same as I love some of John Lennon's songs, and same as I think some of them are junk.
When I sing Hawaiian mele, I sing them from the haole perspective. That's me. I am haole. No can help it. I was borned that way. But even though I sing them from the haole perspective coming out of a haole soul, I sing them from the heart. And I research the mele and I try to learn what the haku mele intended for me to learn from the mele and I malama the mele. I love it enough that I am learning to read, speak and understand the language it was written in. That is the best thing I can give back to the music I so dearly love.
We've hashed over the Joni Mitchell thing. She said some things that showed at least me, what her true heart seems to be. I don't like it and I move on. Pau on that one. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 03/17/2010 04:33:16 AM |
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Tetapu
Akahai
China
98 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 05:17:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Kaona in Hawaiian mele or poetry is what gives it the complexity that I love so dearly.
But Auntie has listened for a while now to your ravings and I feel I must speak out.
Haoles make crappy shallow music.
Some Hawaiians do.
Some of every ethnicity do.
Even Iz had a song about pakalolo tickles your feet. To me, a non-doper, that song is junk. Now am I a heretic becuase Iz had a song that I think is junk? No. I still love Iz for all he did. Same as I love some of John Lennon's songs, and same as I think some of them are junk.
When I sing Hawaiian mele, I sing them from the haole perspective. That's me. I am haole. No can help it. I was borned that way. But even though I sing them from the haole perspective coming out of a haole soul, I sing them from the heart. And I research the mele and I try to learn what the haku mele intended for me to learn from the mele and I malama the mele. I love it enough that I am learning to read, speak and understand the language it was written in. That is the best thing I can give back to the music I so dearly love.
We've hashed over the Joni Mitchell thing. She said some things that showed at least me, what her true heart seems to be. I don't like it and I move on. Pau on that one.
you are ascribing labels to yourself which i have not ascribed.
and this is not raving, this is discussing what makes Hawaiian music Hawaiian. just because the word "haole" comes up does not mean everyone hates you or is picking on you or being rude, or even venting.
i am stating truth and fact, and my belief, and just because it is a strong hawaiian opinion is not a reason for you to label it as "raving and ranting"
on the contrary, you are no doubt American. hawaiians are actually NOT american, at heart. let's let go of the reigns a little, shall we?
YOU called yourself a Haole
i dont call any white person haole, actually
there are kama'aina, and there are locals, there are some very local white people
and from your comments, i dont think you are a "haole" in the shallow braindead sense at all.
obviously you have some empathy, caring, concern, knowledge, understanding, those things make your music not very haole, but more Hawaiian, don't they
haole, in this sense, is especially referring to the non-comprehending, the unknowing, the ignorant of what Hawaiian is and Hawaiian's are.
not only that, but all the vanity, greed, showboating, etc, are not hawaiian traits, and NOT hawaiian, thus they are Haole
anyway, "Haole is not a bad thing anymore than being born a muslem or black guy is 'bad'
there is no reason to take offense, be proud of what you are, and be a credit to your race.
haole is not a race, just a general Hawaiian term for those outside Hawaii with little or nothing to do with Hawaii
its a hawaiian word only, and doesnt exist as anything outside of hawaii
just like Chinese call everyone Laowai, which includes Hawaiians.
just means not from China, not of China, etc..
that would offend every other nationality on the planet, were you to get offended by it. but there is no reason to, every culture has a word like Haole for others outside their race and culture.
and every culture and race should have its own identity.. with the exception of americans really.. but thats up to the individual to know his or her roots and identity.
you cannot make any derogatory remark about any other culture or race of people on the planet, it just doesnt work.. or only works from within one very narrow culture, and even then, its a general derogatory remark to all others outside your culture.
so dont start calling me a racist, because that's what you are getting around to.
a haole is a haole, its nothing derogatory at all.
its just not Hawaiian, which is what we were trying to define, being that we Hawaiians are a lost race of hopeless people without an identity, save it be from the hard work of individuals like Dennis Pavao, Peter Medieros, Ozzie, and other people who have worked to bring about the rebirth of our culture, language and traditions
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Na Ke Akua E Malama Kakou |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 06:06:11 AM
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Oh man, Tetapu has a strong personality and makes some broad statements. Things are getting stirred up in Taropatch land again. Tetapu, where have you been? You haven't posted in a really long time.
Wanda - I've got your back. 
This post is about ignorance. Don't know if Joni Mitchell's quote was taken out of context or whatever. I figure if not said in jest, then ignorance was to blame. Tetapu's guys loving a cover of a cover of a cover... that is ignorance. If Kawika cannot convince them whose arrangment it really is, that is their loss. Tetapu - not even worth your irritation. |
Andy |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 06:24:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Admin
Tetapu - not even worth your irritation.
That's my point as well. Kawika/Tetapu - pretty much everyone here agrees that IZ created a gorgeous and memorable medley, one that is and will likely continue to stand the test of time. (And thanks to the efforts of Mountain Apple's licensing division, it certainly will.)
The "American Idol" version doesn't compare. The comment-makers who didn't know about IZ's version certainly do now, but they have their preference (and their own ignorance, as do we all). As frustrating as they are, you're probably putting too much negative energy into your concern about their lack of knowledge.
Maybe they'll "get" it someday - maybe they won't. You've done your part to convince them - and more than enough ranting here about it.
And despite your later comments, if you go back and re-read your postings, you DO toss the word "haole" out in a derogatory fashion quite often. You might want to do a personal check about that. |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 07:13:17 AM
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I am not Hawaiian, I am not American, I am not Scottish, Irish or Welsh (although descended from at least two, possibly three of the latter). I am not American, I am not black, I am not French, or a Gypsy. I am not from Canada. And yet I play music from all of these sources.
I do this because at some point I’ve liked something enough to want to learn it. And I do it because I can. Going from ‘I wish I could play that tune’ to being able to play it, especially with friends, is one of the best feelings in the world.
I hold the people I’ve heard the music from in high esteem. I’ve travelled to quite a few places in the world and everywhere I’ve been, I’ve made friends, (including several people on this board), and I’ve had the privilege of playing with some very very good players indeed, and it’s all because of the music.
I’m from Liverpool, home city of the Beatles. I’ve heard people doing Beatles songs all over the world, including Hawaii. Does that mean that I should start objecting that my culture is being stolen by all you foreigners? Would that seem reasonable?
If I claimed that when Liverpool people sing a song it’s from the heart and to express their innermost feelings and emotions, but when anyone from anywhere else does the same song it’s ‘empty and meaningless’, would that seem reasonable?
None of us has any control over where we were born. You don’t get to pick.
I understand your frustration. I’ve had people tell me in no uncertain terms that a certain song is Irish when I know it’s not. I’ve also had people insist to me that vegetarians eat fish. These days you can just say ‘google it if you don’t believe me!’ Most people don’t like to be wrong, and certainly don’t like being told they’re wrong. But the evidence is there to be found, and one day those ignorant guys will find out about Iz, and they’ll think ‘Hey, that guy was right all along!’
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 08:01:26 AM
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| Music does not respect arbitrary political borders. Neither does food. Aren't we all the luckier for that? |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 08:40:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Kaona in Hawaiian mele or poetry is what gives it the complexity that I love so dearly.
Haoles make crappy shallow music.
Some Hawaiians do.
Some of every ethnicity do..
Eh, Auntie, I wan haole an' bustin da butt to sound Hawaiian. It's been a struggle, but I get closer all da time. And, to Trev - I play jazz piano, and "Over The Rainbow" is wonderful to play and improvise on. The original is rich with chord and key changes, and the verse is a gem! Ho'olohe! |
keaka |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 10:44:04 AM
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| I live on this planet. I breathe this planet's air, eat its food, drink its water, hang out with some of its inhabitants, share songs and tunes with them. Some have a deeper appreciation of some things than others. Some are aware that they need to grow, others aren't. No one is one the exact same page. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 11:11:54 AM
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| I'm still waiting for the Book of Kory - Koryisms to guide your life. For realz. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 11:16:55 AM
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Tetapu honey - Auntie is not grouchy at you. But why don't you come tell us who you are, where you come from (geographically and philosophically) and a bit more about yourself so we can understand where you are coming from and maybe not miscontrue your comments or read some meaning into them that just may not be there. I think even you would admit that on first glance it seems like you are making comments just to get folks riled up. I suspect that is not the case at all
Come, come tell us how you came to be in China. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Tetapu
Akahai
China
98 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 1:44:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Tetapu honey - Auntie is not grouchy at you. But why don't you come tell us who you are, where you come from (geographically and philosophically) and a bit more about yourself so we can understand where you are coming from and maybe not miscontrue your comments or read some meaning into them that just may not be there. I think even you would admit that on first glance it seems like you are making comments just to get folks riled up. I suspect that is not the case at all
Come, come tell us how you came to be in China.
that's fair enough
My Father is about 2/3 Native Hawaiian & 1/3 Chinese, and get some Irish in there somehow, From O'ahu, Pearl City area
My Mother is English and German, and some Native American, been in America since the Mayflower landed.
My Mother was born in Oregon, her parents were Educators and Curriculum writers for the School system in Hawaii while my mom was growing up on O'ahu..
She was Hapai with me she moved to live near her Auntie and Uncle and all her cousins in Utah
I grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah
there are alot of Polynesians in Utah, alot of people from Hawaii, a really nice community.
i went to West High school for my 9th grade year, it seems that school was mostly Polynesian, alot of Tongans and Samoans, at least they outnumbered any other ethnicity there
then i went to Cottonwood Highschool for my 10-12 years, then I moved to Oregon, to my moms hometown, where I went to College for about 2 years
then I moved to Kaua'i. I moved to Princeville, then I lived in Hanalei, Kilauea, Puhi, Kapa'a, and Wainiha
I Just studied Hawaiian culture mainly, played music everyday, go surfing, fishing, free-diving, play in the rivers, whateva.
I was lucky to have some kind of kupunas to take me under their wing and show me all about my culture
then I joined a Tahitian Troupe, and played Fa'atete, and I wordked with Leilani Bond, and she taught me alot, she is very sweet.. and her super uncle Larry Rivera as well.. that guy is so special
just go pick opihi, limukoho, umi, catch the shrimps, i worked as a chef around the island, making geat Poke and what not.. carving up 200 lb Ahi's, and i went back to school, studying Hawaiian language, Leilani Bond was in my class there.
I had some friends in the Punanaleo schools there too to helpme In general, all of my friends were very Hawaiian and Samoan people, most of them spoke Polynesian more than English. I was pretty radically anti-american at that time, and quite deep into Hawaiian Sovereignty and Annexation and very deep into my culture, very deep. spiritually deep, walking and talking with 'uhane deep..
me and a few of my friends had a little band, on guy was the master of uke, he could play KCB's On Fire faster than they did..
two of them took Slack key from KCC, i think Ozzie was their teacher..
in fact, i was a little intimidated to play, I had just bought a new Guild guitar, but it was the first time i actually played any guitar, and i think it was the name "ozzie" scared me off a little bit.. i imagined some guy with face paint eating bat heads or something...
anyway, i had so much fun, i lived with the Pu'ulei's for some time , my best friend, Randy, wound up in a frikken jail somehow.. so then I went back to Oregon for a while, and then decided to Join the U.S. Navy, became an Electronics Technician working on Weapons and Communications systems, then 9-11 happened when I was in training school, and the base changed its policies to accommodate and attract more people, which was in conflict with the training i just received, so I was able to get out of the Navy, and wanted to get as far away from america as possible. So i got a job teaching English in the People's Republic of China in early 2002
and since then i have been working on my Chinese, studying my Chinese culture, and also studying international trade and working with alot of local factories and what not. Opening a trade company now.
I've traveled around Asia and Europe since I've been here. i have several Brazilian friends playing Bossanova style music, and I jam with some Chinese friends
I spent a year in Cambodia about 5 years ago, and that and being in China all this time has really given me kind of an outsiders look at America and a non-american view of Polynesia in General.
In general i dont really like mainland american things. but neither do alot of Europeans, Latin Americans, Asians, Middle Eastern people, and most other people around the world
its not a fault of mine. dont get angry with me about it. people who dont like americans outnumber americans 10000 to 1, just the music in general i dont like.
i just don't like it, my musical tastes include Hawaiian mostly, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, HKese, Taiwanese, Latin American, Brazilian, French-Viet, Thai / Khmer, Irish, Scottish, Celtic, Northern European, Eastern European, Indian, Turkish, Middle-Eastern, etc.
i have stopped listening to Reggae all together, with the exception of my favorite band, UB40
so that's me, take it for what it is. but don't be too judgmental. remember, i was American once too. I will probably not go back. i would like to become a citizen of New Zealand someday, or maybe Tahiti or elsewhere in Polynesia, maybe even Russia
I'm not racist, I am LDS, i love Mormon people, every where I go, they are the best in the world. I like the expat community overseas, comprised of every European Nation, Asian nation, Russians, Indias and every other country on the planet.
it's just that the American's are not a race of people, i dont like "melting pots", i believe in true culture, roots, origin, history, traditions, religions, gods, goddesses etc
and i believe in education, strength, knowledge, good English and Good Hawaiian, i dont really like pidgeon.
I am a firm believer in the Patheon of Hawaiiana and Polynesian Deity, as well s the gods and goddesses of China, Japan, and Korea, their spirit world's, primordial religions and beliefs, etc, etc.
i am a firm believer in the Ancient hawaiian religions, the good and the bad, including the eye of Kane, Pele of the Volcano and fire pits, Kanaloa of the sea, Ku of war and conquering, Lono i believe is Iesu, who will come again, and all the lesser gods and spirits controlling all things, under one Great and omnipotent supreme Deity of all creation.
that's "me"
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Na Ke Akua E Malama Kakou |
Edited by - Tetapu on 03/17/2010 1:59:22 PM |
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sirduke58
`Olu`olu
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 1:46:14 PM
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Howzit Kawika
I am Half-Hawaiian but live, walk, breathe and carry myself Hawaiian 24/7. Many of your statements have made me feel awkward & uncomfortable, especially the references to "Haole" I do not fully understand your perspective because I see contradictions and a double standard being implied.
How is it that you feel Iz can take any "Haole" song and automatically make it Hawaiian?
Yet according to you "No Haole" can do a Hawaiian song Hawaiian?
"Ho'ihi" (Respect)is the key word Kawika. If a person has respect for the Hawaiian mele then that person's ethnicity does not matter. I've met Wanda & Thumbstruck and they are Hawaiian at heart.Thumbstruck/Kory plays the most Hawaiian sounding slack key I've ever heard from someone outside of Hawaii.My hanai Haole sistah Wanda has personally double my Hawaiian vocabulary just by the wala'au we share. On the other hand I encounter Hawaiians everyday that could learn to be Hawaiian from these "Haoles" Hawaiian IMHO is more a state of mind than blood quantity.
Ozzie (My kumu ki ho'alu) epitomizes Hawaiian in every sense of the word yet he is pure Okinowan with not even a drop of Hawaiian blood. Sonny Chillingworth--Haole/Portugese, Leonard Kwan--Pake, Peter Moon--Pake, Jerry Santos--Portugese etc etc etc...the list goes on & on & on......Are their contributions Un-Hawaiian because of their ethnic make-up?
I may sound sacreligious but with all due respect to Bruddah Iz...Somewhere Over the Rainbow/What a Wonderful Life.....is not a Hawaiian song. Neither is Country Roads or Margarita or Johnny Mahoe and a host of his other songs......I'd categorize these songs closer to "Jawaiian" than Hawaiian...This was one of IZ's accomplishments, bridging Jawaiian & Hawaiian and it played a big part in his popularity and mass appeal. Ain't no doubt IZ was Hawaiian through & through but it doesn't mean every piece of his music was.
Kawika you can speak for yourself and that's your entitlement but you cannot speak for all of us Hawaiians
Malama Pono
Duke
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Hoof Hearted?...Was it you Stu Pedaso? |
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guitarded
Ha`aha`a
USA
1799 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 3:50:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tetapu
and i believe in education, strength, knowledge, good English and Good Hawaiian, i dont really like pidgeon.
that's "me"
Dat right deya speaks volumes for me. Born and raised on Oahu of ancestors who worked the pineapple fields of Wahiawa, local-style pidgen is part of my soul, my cultural identity and ethnicity. I talk pidgen every chance I get. Saying that you don't really like pidgen infers that you wouldn't really care for me if we ever met in person, so mahalo at least for the advanced warning. Now I no need boddah wasting my time wondering if I should try talk story with you. You lose, when you exclude. You came here asking for kokua. I suggest you try be more humble in your approach or you going end up alienating everybody pretty quick.
Said with aloha. |
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Joni Mitchell's outrageous ideas about slack key
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