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Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
 Posted - 10/03/2010 : 3:58:19 PM
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i know this topic is going to probably open a can of worms, sorry
some of the discussions on here, like about female slack key players, the discussion on the jew's harp and the one about masters of slack key and a recent artical I came across got me to thinking.
here is the article.
http://www.hawaiitopia.com/?p=41
after reading this I did a little searching and came apon a lot of commentary about tension between native Hawaiians and whites. Some pretty disturbing stories of hate and predudice from both sides. Some saying Hawai'i is one of the worst states for racial tension and descrimination, against blacks as well. Any opinions on this?
also I was thinking about issues concerning the music. Especialy where it concerns questions of 'credibility' or 'authenticity'. How much do you think a persons ancestral, cultural and regional heritage plays a roll in the music they create?
There seems to be a strong emphesis on this with Hawaiian music but other 'ethenic' styles as well.
I myself am undecided.
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2010 : 6:17:44 PM
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Worms don't belong in cans anyway...
Hawai`i is a set of islands as well as being a crossroads location, extremely distant from other landmasses. That means that a very large number of different cultures have come in contact with each other in a limited amount of space.
Considering how we human beings fearfully respond to the things that are unfamiliar to us, it's no surprise that tensions flare up. (And that's if you take the overthrow of an independent kingdom out of the equation ... which you really can't do, but for the sake of argument ...)
Yet those same factors (location & space) also provide an opportunity for cooperation that you find in so few other places. People in past generations of Hawai`i (before the age of jet travel) recognized that they HAD to live in close proximity to each other, so it would be easier to overlook differences and find things to share and embrace about each other.
Food is an amazing unifier. Just look at what foods are popular in Hawai`i, and just about every culture in the Islands provides something ono.
Musical styles cross over to great success. Pidgin developed out of a need to communicate across linguistic borders (and today is used as much to identify "locals" from outsiders as to simplify communication).
People are also united by the hardships they have shared, from high prices to hurricanes, from wartime attacks to wharfside strikes.
As for the blog post, I don't think it's written with a very accurate perspective of Hawai`i. The (relatively young, based on his photo and topics) author had lived on O`ahu for six years, wrote posts for only eight months back in 2008, yet feels qualified to "share ... valuable information regarding Hawaii." He also misspelled a key word in the post as "Hoale." His placement on my reliability scale is rather low. YMMV. |
Edited by - Retro on 10/03/2010 6:26:53 PM |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2010 : 9:50:01 PM
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Well, well, well. As a Hawaiian who supports sovereignty I never denied the existence of racism in the Hawaiian islands. But it is born by all sides and is brought about by the usual ignorance and fear that people seem to perpetuate. I was always appalled by the fact that some white guy was attacked when he wandered into the wrong place at the wrong time. I also abhor abuse of drugs that exacerbate violent behavior. The entries following the above article must be read with careful consideration of the source. The statements are obviously angry and only serve to illustrate how feelings get out of hand in support of one side or the other. People will exaggerate and perhaps lie about circumstances they supposedly experienced to support a meaningless argument about one position or the other. I question BAU's motive for raising this topic on this site. Is the question asked really worth discussing here? I think not.
The Hawaiian Islands are unique in many ways and a lot like other places as well. This can be said of every other place in the world. It is a dangerous world we live in and we should be vigilant to the possibility of being attacked by people no matter where we are. And, every place that depends on tourists for money will attempt to alleviate any negative news so as not to scare away paying customers.
Some of the cultural aspects of Hawaiian music is rooted in centuries of Hawaiian culture and tradition which includes religious practices as well as secular aspects of the lives of the Hawaiian people. It was a means of communicating in a native language when it was not allowed. People were beaten and punished for speaking Hawaiian in public. It was not until 1972 that Hawaiian language was officially recognized in Hawaiʻi as the second official language of the state. When non Hawaiians pick up Hawaiian music out of an interest and perhaps a love for the music it is appreciated by Hawaiian people. Controversy arises when people not schooled in the history or the language try to change things to something they may better understand in their own background. Opinions about the music or the history are often shrouded in half truth and innuendo that have no basis in fact. And sometime people get argumentative when they are challenged.
Violent acts based on the dislike of people who are members of different groups are almost always the result of frustration in a system that does not serve to alleviate ignorance and prejudice. These acts are often committed by individuals who lack the knowledge or the compassion to relate to others on a human and humane level and is also amplified by alcohol and drug abuse. Individuals such as this do not have the skill sets to sort out the feelings and thoughts that give rise to their behavior.
So is Bauʻs question about music? Is it about Hawaiʻi being a bad place for Caucasians? Is it not obvious that "a persons ancestral, cultural and regional heritage plays a roll in the music they create?" Can a happy person write a blues song? Is the sky blue and why? This is a very toxic topic but interesting as well. But I don not think that this is the forum for such a discussion. Having said that I hope we get thoughtful response to this if anyone else needs to chime in.
Peace on.
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No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 10/04/2010 07:31:32 AM |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 03:14:01 AM
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I am with Al (noeau) on this one.
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Bob |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 04:16:19 AM
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| As a haole of Scandinavian descent, I am always amazed at the friendliness and the welcome I recieve by the Hawaiian Community. Show respect and consideration for a person's culture and they will share with you. (Al has never failed to provide insights, recipes and tunes.) |
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Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 04:19:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by noeau
I question BAU's motive for raising this topic on this site. Is the question asked really worth discussing here? I think not.
So is Bauʻs question about music? Is it about Hawaiʻi being a bad place for Caucasians? Is it not obvious that "a persons ancestral, cultural and regional heritage plays a roll in the music they create?" Can a happy person write a blues song? Is the sky blue and why? This is a very toxic topic but interesting as well. But I don not think that this is the forum for such a discussion. Having said that I hope we get thoughtful response to this if any else needs to chime in.
Peace on.
they were 2 differnt question having the same theme of sociology and culture. It says you can post off-topic stuff or whatever in this section of the forum.
As far as my motivations being questioned. I shouldn't have to justify them but I will. I have a great respect for native peoples and cultural boundries. I would like to go to Hawai'i mabee even move their someday, a little dream of mine, and I do not have native ancestry. I do not want to go where I'm not wanted or show disrespect. I could not tell from the different stories I've read what the situaion is there. Here on the eastcoast it is a melting pot too and people live very close. I was wondering how it compares to here. There doesnt seem to be a big problem just osolated incidents. There is a good mix of folks on here of all differnet experience, good people to ask.
As ar as the music its the same. I am studying Kihoalu, but I'm not of Hawaiian ancestry or have ever lived there so there is plenty i don't know. I would like to share the music with other, do performances and clinics in my area, but am unsure about it. I don't want to be disrepectul and would like to represnt things in a way that isn't. I have wondered if one isn't of the culture can they truely understand or represent it in an authentic way?
My questions are borne out of innocent curiosity and respect and sincer concern, not some other motive as you may seem to think.Sorry if my original post was brief and I didnt go into these long explanation, but I'm very ill and all this typing is difficult.sorry if I have offended. I don't fit anything well. *sigh*
And thanks for the opinion and good info on Hawai'i. |
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no ka oi
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 04:37:44 AM
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When I see this kind of sh*t brought up like this, it really pisses me off. Honolulu is a big city and has many of the problems that lifestyle can bring. It is a Disneyland distortion of Hawaii. Parts of the North Shore of Oahu still resonate as Hawaii. While there is plenty of crime in Hawaii, most of it is property crime, not violent crime. If you look at the FBI statistics, Hawaii is still pretty average in property crime. But everything gets blown out of proportion. When you have so many tourists, they bring their own crap. I am haole (which means foreigner, not white person) but support the sovereignty movement even though I am not welcome by it. The history of Hawaii is a lesson in how to steal a culture and a nation simply for the profit of relatively few. The European and American cultures are about accumulating wealth. Hawaii culture was living within a strict and sometimes brutal (although with mercy) set of rules that gave great import to preserving what the land had to offer and sharing that bounty. Believe me, that attitude of sharing and Aloha still exist. It is up to the individual how they are treated.
So many come to Hawaii and want to make it like it was "back home" even though they came because back home was effed up. They come with a feeling of entitlement, after all it's the U.S., isn't it? That's bullshit! Come with a sense of humility and love of the land and you will find something close to paradise. I am white, haole, and a musician. When I first came I presented my music with humility and was welcomed by many Hawaiians and locals who I count among my many friends. The person who committed the crime in the article is not Hawaiian. Maybe local but not Hawaiian. The way this article is presented is total crap by an angry person. Many who come here to live become angry when they can't fit into the slower lifestyle. They leave with anger. White people don't like being the target of prejudice. They are not used to it, but it's good for us to feel what we (in general) have done to so many for so long.
So much more to say but that's enough. Why even present an article like this on this forum? What is your motive? Are you thinking about relocating to Hawaii? |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 05:17:09 AM
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Hawai'i is a complex place that has gone through social upheaval for hundreds of years. Everyone's advice about approaching the culture with humility is important.
If you're white and you get a little stink eye from a local, don't take it personally. My advice: carry an 'ukulele.
Jesse |
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no ka oi
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 05:44:26 AM
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If you're scared or nervous, stay home. Don't go to Oahu anyway. Go to The Big Island or Kauai for a taste of Hawaii. Leave your American entitlement at home. The article you quoted is over 2 years old. Why didn't you include the article where local residents had a vigil for the dead boy?
The first "gift" the haole brought to Hawaii was syphilis which wiped out 90% of the population. Then they brought "Civilization". So many lessons here and none learned. They plantation owners wanted to be able to to send their raw sugar to California without tariffs so Hawaii was annexed by the US. A culture was robbed and repressed by Americans and Europeans, largely in the name of God. So you get a little stink eye, or your service isn't fast enough. We owe much, much more than a little inconvenience.
You want to think about moving here? Nature will do a lot more to you than local prejudice. Spend much time here before considering a relocation from New Jersey. You will be moving to a foreign land.
Don't try to speak Pidgin if it's not your language. You will be accepted for yourself if you have the right attitude. |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 05:59:33 AM
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| IMHO, Honolul is no more dangerous than Seattle, where I live. There are areas it is wise to stay out of, especillay after dark, and there are areas that sre safe. That being said, I usually stay Kailua, more quiet and not as much trouble. I, too, am a Haole who loves things Hawaiian. I have a lot of friends in the state of Hawaii and always have a good time there. If one has "heart" and respect for the culture, one gets along ok. I will always look like a Haole, but I feel accepted by all I meet, either here or in Hawaii. My favorite complement- I was playing steel guitar with a bunch of old Hawaiian guys at a festival here in the Northwest. When it ended, I went over to the old guy running the kanekapila and said "Mahlo nui loa for you guys letting me play with you". He looked at me for about a minute and said "You don't play like a haole". I was pleased. |
keaka |
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no ka oi
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 06:09:15 AM
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| My buddy, Victor Chock, who plays the piss out of a ukulele, came up to me one night and said he was playing with my friend Wade (Hawaiian Style Band) and was surprised he could sing and play all the songs of the Hawaiian culture. He said he was surprised a haole knew the songs. Some would take this as in insult because of the word "haole". Goes to show you how perception can cause misunderstanding. This was a big compliment even though Wade is a star in his own right. Haole was used only as a descriptive term. |
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no ka oi
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 06:10:58 AM
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| And . . The problems of Honolulu are American problems, not Hawaiian problems. More imports from a very flawed culture. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 3:57:45 PM
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Every culture is flawed because all people have their flat sides. All humans must struggle with 1)their ignorance, 2)their incompetance -all languages have at least one word for "oops", and 3)their selfishness. Joseph Heller ("Catch 22") surmized all political history thusly: "The weak are at the mercy of those in power." Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel" also provides some historic insight.
Those of us who struggle with our deficiencies can at least be thankful for music and good folks to jam with. That and digital tuners. |
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no ka oi
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 4:36:08 PM
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| Yes, but Honolulu's flaws are particularly American. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2010 : 04:02:16 AM
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| With the flaws come some good points. It ain't all bad. We have guitars, ukuleles, CDs, I-Pods, computers and communications with those who share our musical tastes. As a human, I reserve the right to pick and choose what elements of the surrounding culture I wish to employ in my life. I may be limited because of language and location, but I do have access to knowledge and the wisdom and experience of others. My Dad used to tell my brother and me, "You don't have to be like everyone else. You have a mind, THINK!" |
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slkho
`Olu`olu
740 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2010 : 12:30:28 PM
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I agree with no ka oi "Why even present an article like this on this forum?" (even if 'talk story' is for any subject) Culural "differences" in regards to music, (hawaiian music) is a worthy subject of substance. But hate crimes,or crimes in general like the one reference in the article aren't unique to Hawaii, certainly not fodder for this forum.
Your going to have crazy F-er's anywhere its the world we live in I suppose.
~slkho |
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racial tensions in Hawai'i and music
