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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
 Posted - 08/30/2006 : 06:09:01 AM
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Andy,
At the very least, those languages sites should be in a place of their own. The only other mention of Ulukau, I found in a search of the archives and it was your intial announcement of it.
But, I agree with Lawrence: The vote is in.
...Reid |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 10:50:43 AM
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Check the Links under Hawaiian Language
I am approaching the idea of setting up a language forum slowly and carefully. While I recognize the interest here, my preference is to have a native speaker moderate the forum. I have started researching this and frankly am hesitant to move forward without having a qualified person supervise. Not being Hawaiian, I feel this is the right thing to do. |
Andy |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 2:13:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Pua Kai
I'm looking forward to it too!! Sarah - how interested are you in answering our needs? Just the salutations used here are a mystery until we catch on...
Aloha e Pua Kai,
I'm always happy to help folks understand Hawaiian insofar as my studies have taken me. Reid cited for you, also, the excellent online dictionary reference that you can check out for yourself when you encounter a word or phrase that you don't understand. Here's a direct link you can bookmark: http://wehewehe.org/gsdl2.5/cgi-bin/hdict?l=en
The dictionary often has example(s) of the word being used in phrases or idioms, which is very handy and reveals the greater breadth of meaning encompassed by the word. I think it helps, then, to learn some grammar, to understand how the words are put together. There are many language textbooks available online to help people learn about that aspect.
aloha,
Sarah |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 07:27:10 AM
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Thanks Sarah. Reid cited so many sites that he lost me. The phrases are probably the hardest to understand because translating each word comes up with a lot of meanings. I was hoping there could be something like "Sarah's List" (like C-Patch's list) that would have the phrases commmonly used here on taropatch. When folks use Hawaiian, it automatically slows down understanding. And whereas you use more than anyone, the meaning of your posts are not lost. With so many other ways to learn the Hawaiian language available, it doesn't seem like that should be the aim of this website. One thing that hasn't come up and it surprises me is a discussion of common phrases in different songs, but perhaps I'm way behind everyone else. I think Andy is envisioning something bigger in wanting to find an "expert". I haven't asked what some of the phrases used here mean because of the age old, "I don't want to sound stupid." I was hoping for that beginning level and as pertains to common phrases folks use here, and those relating to the music. And that's why I asked the question about using Kanaka pertaining to Andy - And actually, there are pigin words used occasionally that surprise me too. I thought Katunk was not a nice word - used here in California by the Hawaiians of Japanese (or other) decent pertaining to mainland Americans of Japanese ancestry. It was used awhile ago. Of course at this point I get very political thinking that we are all Americans if we're born here or move here and embrace the culture.... the subset of that of course are Hawaiians, Californians, Yalies, etc.
'nuf - you are one of the terrific resources here and I appreciate it - mahalo. |
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slkho
`Olu`olu
740 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 07:35:28 AM
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I'm all for it.
~slkho |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 12:01:08 PM
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OK . .
So what does
Haina Mai Ana Ka Pua'a
mean?
And why does it end so many Hawaiian Songs? |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 1:26:06 PM
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quote:
Haina Mai Ana Ka Pua'a
I think you mean "Ha'ina Mai Ana Ka Puana" although there are variants.
This is the first thing I noticed about the Hawaiian music playing in the background at manu of the tourist sites when I first visited the islands in the Seventies (Kauai). I asked the people around me (servicing the tourists) "why do all the songs end in that phrase". No one had an answer, they all seemed to be unaware of what was playing over their own sound systems! (Guess I really never asked the right people, although some of them looked like locals).
Later I found out is a traditional ending meaning that a summary of the essential meaning or title of the song will be repeated I.e. a re-capitulation is voiced at the end - which may be a paraphase of the title or some important element - such as "I love Mckee Island", etc.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 09/03/2006 08:55:15 AM |
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islandboo
Lokahi
USA
237 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 5:30:42 PM
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My favorite explanation of "Ha`ina `ia mai ana ka puana" came from before I ever set foot on Hawai`i and knew nothing of the music or language. I am a hopeless Warren Zevon fan, and his explanation of the refrain of his song "The Hula Hula Boys" is as follows: quote:
The chorus, "Ha`ina i`a [sic] mai ana ka puana" is an idiom which means "Sing the chorus" or "Get to the point"
There is perhaps nuance which is not captured in that statement, but as a general rule, I am tickled by it. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 02:29:45 AM
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Sarah and I have a translation variant: "Let the story be told", which is then followed by the recapitulation of the song's lead-in, as Lawrence said.
...Reid |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 08:33:34 AM
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Aloha kakou,
A very on-topic question. I’ll chime in with my (lengthy) two cents
As I’ve heard it, in earlier Hawaiian tradition, the words, the story or thought, was the important part of the song. “Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana” is a traditional way to start, and to signal, the final verse of a song, "The refrain/theme is told." It is even right there in the dictionary, under “ha'ina,” and you are referred to the entry for “puana.” This final verse is also referred to as “the ha'ina.” Ha'ina hou is to tell it again. Like hana hou – do it again -- which we all shout at the end of a Hawaiian music concert! But I digress.
There are a number variants, too. It seems that what fits the musical phrasing is what is used. People have come up with various ways of freely translating the same general idea into English: let the story be told, tell the story, tell the refrain, let the refrain be told, etc.
What is amusing about the quote islandboo submitted is that the word 'ia is misspelled as i'a, which means "fish". The result is perhaps something like, “The refrain is told as a fish does” … or something!
What Mika 'ele quoted in his initial question, "Haina mai ka pua'a," would mean, “The pig is offering hither a sacrifice.” Not sure how often that might be said
Examples of variants:
Ha'ina mai ka puana
Ha'ina 'ia mai ka puana
Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana
Ha'ina ka mana'o [The thought is told]
Ha'ina ka puana a lohe 'ia [The refrain is told and/until (it is) heard]
For those interested, my breakdown of the phrase follows. As many of you know, Hawaiian words usually have several or many different meanings, so they are highly context-dependent. All the below can be found in the dictionary.
ha'ina = tell
'ia = a particle turning the preceding verb/action into a passive form
mai = a directional indicating "towards", something like our "hither"
ana = in this instance, a word used to indicate a one-time/future action
ka = article "the"
puana = in this context: refrain, theme, that which is expressed
mana’o = thought, idea
a = and; until [in this context, it doesn't make much difference which meaning is applied]
lohe = hear [therefore, lohe 'ia = heard]
ku'u wahi mana'o wale no,
aloha,
Sarah
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 09:03:52 AM
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Some observations about ‘okinas and kahakos.
Official modern orthography specifies the ‘okina as a consonant, the last letter of the alphabet. Therefore it is used in modern spelling, it has a separate entry as a letter in the modern Hawaiian dictionary (Mamaka Kaiao), and it is important where you put it!
The kahako is not a letter, but it reflects pronunciation and meaning. I've also seen more variation in whether it is used or not, or accidentally left out. (A kahako, or macron, belongs over the last o in the word kahako!)
In the old days, Hawaiian was completely oral, and the pronunciation of everything was, of course, heard. After it became a written language, it was usually written without any diacriticals (‘okina and kahako) because everyone, being fluent, already knew from the context what the words meant and how they sounded. So you will see lots of old newspaper articles and stuff written in the 1800s and early 1900s that have no ‘okinas or kahakos.
One can still see people writing without using the ‘okina or kahako, perhaps because it is quicker for people who know what they are doing -- and it is difficult with computers to always find a way to type a kahako (as now, in this post.) And sometimes, nowadays, it appears to be a “statement” to write in the old style, without any diacriticals at all.
ku’u wahi mana’o wale no [just my own thought]
aloha,
Sarah
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 4:12:44 PM
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| Mahalo, Sarah!! |
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 7:23:23 PM
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Reid and Sarah, you two just floor me. Why do you have to live so far away from us?????
Sigh..... Julie |
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Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 05:35:40 AM
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One of the islands' more famous slack key masters once jokingly paraphrased it to say, "Hey, this is what I just sang to you!".  |
Auntie Maria
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