| Author |
 Topic  |
|
sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
 Posted - 02/03/2009 : 12:43:38 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by braddah jay
[quote]
I think the one who played note for note,put moa time in.To me das one compliment,but dat's just my 2 cents lol.
I know what you mean Jay.
When I see that first video I am impressed and think "damn, that guy must really love that music." That is a pretty big compliment to pay to someone because I know it took lots of time sitting with his album/cassette/cd/mp3 player learning it note by note, line by line, and who knows how many tries it took to get the video to come out right to post on youtube.
What's that phrase, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"?
|
Edited by - sm80808 on 02/03/2009 12:44:12 PM |
 |
|
|
P.M. JR.
Akahai
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 3:01:02 PM
|
Aloha Braddah Jay,
I understand and respect your point of view. My personal opinion is that anyone who's determined enough to learn a song note for note also has the capacity to make it his/her own. Why not? :) No one can play Hi'ilawe like Gabby or Ka Wailele 'O Nu'uanu like Benny or sing Makee 'Ailana like Sonny.
"imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"... to me, taking another artists' piece that you really enjoy and using it as a template to express your own feelings and bond you have with that song is a greater sign of respect and admiration. Just my personal opinion.
Just my 2 cents... well I guess it's 4 cents now lol ^_^
Mahalo |
Peter W.K. Moon |
|
|
|
RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 4:11:26 PM
|
Peter,
I tend to agree with you, except for one thing. Many people are trully intimidated when they even think about "arranging" a song. There really is a lot of misconception about what it takes to begin to make your own arrangements, especially in a folk idiom. It is a lot safer to spend hours working out someone else's arrangement than having to come up with your own. (That is different from the occasional experience of just loving a piece, or a lick, so much that you just have to play it.) Nevertheless, when you are playing someone else's work, even if you are the one who transcribed it, you owe it to the artist to give him or her credit.
I think sometimes it might be of value for people to develop a "bag of tricks," that they can apply to various songs. Not that difficult in slack key because you can base it on parallel sixths, and different ways of playing them, the few chords that are commonly used - develop simple 4 - 5 note scales, harmonics and slurs. The biggest problem with the "bag of tricks" approach is that the songs start sounding more and more like each other.
Another way of "individualizing" a piece is to borrow and modify a phrase, lick or passage from another song or genre and make an intro, refrain or bridge out of it. Peter Sr. did that brilliantly a few times, no? Listen to how jazz players do that, as well as build on phrases from each other within the same song.
The thing is, not many teachers teach people ways of doing these things, hold their hands for those new beginners steps. |
|
|
|
rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 4:37:24 PM
|
Learning the song "note for note" can be a living/loving tribute to a person one sees as an inspiration. A complement to the one who's version made you want to learn the song in the first place. But the desire to create will eventually cause most players to begin adding their own touches to their performance. The only thing I see as wrong is the concept that there's only one way to play the song, and other arangements are somehow "wrong". I have heard this epistle too often from local rockers. I can't accept that there is only one way to play a song, and I don't think Gabby or PM Sr. would have accepted that either. I think a teacher's job is self-obsolescence.
When the student begins teaching the teacher, his old kumu has to feel a great pride in wathcing his student soar.It might be a greater tribute to take the note for note arangement and begin to "play like my teacher might play it when he records it again some day." We have various versions of a few of Reverend Dennis Kamakahi's songs, recorded by him in various bands and solo albums. None are copies of each other, though Reverend Kamakahi is on each recording. And what others have done with the same songs is a treat, also, from Mike Ka`awa to the Ho`Opii Brothers. They didn't try to sound like the original Sons Of Hawaii recordings, or to sound like Rev Kamakahi. And why should they? The job is filled. Folks with that much talent are always thinking up new ways to play. Listen to Peter Medeiros' album Ko`olau- He reinvents himself several times on the same recording. Magnum Opus, indeed!
When the teacher has succeeded, the student will have learned to let his own personality come out in his creations, music, painting, sculpture, architectural design, or whatever medium.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 02/03/2009 4:39:09 PM |
|
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 7:38:59 PM
|
When I mentioned above about watching on You Tube for young folks who post their videos of Hawaiian music, here is a great exaple. Very nice music, very talented, only 19 years old, according to his profile info. Find folks like this and send them an e-mail message through you tube. Nothing wrong with reaching out.
http://www.youtube.com/user/anepak08
After all, that is how we all met Duke and Jay and think how sadly lacking our lives would be had we not met them. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
|
|
|
slackkey808
Akahai
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 9:50:19 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
When I mentioned above about watching on You Tube for young folks who post their videos of Hawaiian music, here is a great exaple. Very nice music, very talented, only 19 years old, according to his profile info. Find folks like this and send them an e-mail message through you tube. Nothing wrong with reaching out.
http://www.youtube.com/user/anepak08
After all, that is how we all met Duke and Jay and think how sadly lacking our lives would be had we not met them.
Hey Aunty I know who that is, he was in my class in high school. Problem is he lives on Maui and if anything he may have went to a mainland college (not sure). I told Uncle Duke about couple other guys that played some slack key (he was one of the guys I was talking about), but they never brought their guitars to school (and the guitar was at school cuz they were boarders). So I was still alone playing slack key in front of the principals office or something. I guess they still stuck in the keeping it a secret part of slack key I dunno. |
|
|
|
braddah jay
Lokahi
235 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 10:47:48 PM
|
| I think I know what you're trying to say,but just because someone took the time to learn a song note for note doesn't really mean anything more than how that song touched them.To the point that they wanted to play it exactly how they heard it,to me the purest form of flattery.Not everyone has goals of individualality,though that's what you would think if someone were to put that much time into a song,but that's not always the case.To be able to play the song as they percieve correct is a accomplishment to themselves period.I think your father would take that as a form of flattery,knowing how not so simple his style actually is.You know I respect your own opinion,which is what this is actually about.Thanks peter,braddah jay. |
|
|
|
hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2009 : 08:06:04 AM
|
| It is not true. You are not the only kid in Hawaii who likes hawaiian music. You may not understand the other kids in your area. Get out of the house. |
Stay Tuned... |
Edited by - hikabe on 02/04/2009 08:15:40 AM |
|
|
|
slackkey808
Akahai
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2009 : 09:04:16 AM
|
| Well I know I'm not the ONLY kid that likes Hawaiian music. I'm just saying that from going to school across the island, and visiting my girlfriend across the island (so that covers about half the island), I haven't met that many kids who play Hawaiian music that much. In my guitar class in high school we had a kanikapila performance and I was the only one that played slack key, let alone Hawaiian music (as a choice, some didn't have a choice to any song cuz they voted between a few). Apart from that, people either played something by Jason Mraz or Jawaiian or rock music. Maybe I just don't know where to look. |
|
|
|
sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2009 : 09:43:32 AM
|
Zack: Are you a student? You should check out PM's class at UH when he has them. Hopefully I can attend the next time he has a session. Being an "adult" and working full time kinda sucks. :(
Also, I have a confession... Sometimes, when driving, I like to blast some Led Zep or Grant Green instead of Hawaiian music... (I was feeling guilty there for a little while). |
|
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2009 : 10:20:56 AM
|
I know it is hard to be patient. I for one have absolutely no patience. But you are going to find folks your age who care for the music just as much as you. At lest now there are two of you. And there are more, like Kimo from Waikiki, although he is a few years younger than you guys. The music changes, too. When we met the tutu lady in Waikiki who told Paul that she appreciated hearing the "old" style music because today's Hawaiian music just wasn't the same to her, I thought about the music I grew up with. We had two kinds of music -- church music and hillbilly music. Hillbilly music back then is nowhere anything like today's "country" music. It was not even bluegrass. We had Mother Maybelle and all dem other Carter guys; we had Grandpa Jone and Stringbean on the .banjo. Had some fiddlers, too. Then it got more "mainstream" I guess is the word they use. Then was Earl and Lester; the Louvin Bros., the Stanley Bros, Roy Acuff and Bill Monroe. Then was Hank Williams and Patsy Cline. Then was Porter Waggoner with the sparkly rhinestones (in the pattern of flowers as on the sponsor Breeze detergent boxes which had free towels inside). Then we had Loretta Lynn, George Jones and Tammy Wynette. And now country music sounds like rock & roll or some other kind of schmaltz, but not country at all. Faith Hill is not a bit country if you ask me. Only relatively modern ones I think make nice country music are
alison Krauss, Emmylou Harris and Ricky Scaggs. I hope to heck that does not happen with Hawaiian music, that it gets so very homogenized that you cant tell what kine, except by the name of the folks who make the music.
Zack & Shawn & Peter -- one word of advice. Be proud that you like what you like. Be proud that you are not one of the sheep in the herd or one of the lemmings. Staya true to your heart. Play in public as much as you can. You feel like jammin, go to the park or sit out on your lanai if you get 'em. Dink around with your guitar unplugged. or your `ukulele, just sitting on da beach, grooving to the rhythm of the waves. Somebody going come up and say howzit. Maybe even bring an instrument to join you. Maybe you have to go the same place a few times so someone notices that you come there every so often. Then they join you, maybe talk story about music, maybe join in with playing. You gotta be the ambassador guyz.
But I tell you anodda ting -- one side of the island to the other; going over the pali, going north shore -- that is not far at all. Me and Paul had to go Washington DC to get some music or had to go Las Vegas. That makes hearing the music quite expensive. That's why we gotta mak 'em at home or on the you tube. Or at the hula hui. Maybe you can join a halau -- bound to be oddah guyz, more and more guyz dancing hula, no shame. Maybe Robert Cazimero takes haumana. But lots of halau might like someone to make music for them, ah dunno??? Auntie Mapu plays `ukulele herself and has one daughter who has a band/is member of a band.
The idea about taking a class at UH is a swell idea, too. I betcha Petah would be a swell kumu ova deah. And you have a ready made bunch of guyz then -- they would all be there for the same reason.
Doesn't Ozzie have more young students other than you guys?
Auntie worries about you guys, I want you to be happy and am proud of you for malama the music. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
|
|
|
hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2009 : 10:35:42 AM
|
Was the high school event billed as a kanikapila performance or a jam session? If it was a kanikapila there would have been more hawaiian music. A jam session is a chance for people to show what they got musically. Perhaps you have an agenda and wish to perpetuate hawaiian music. That's great. Others are just having fun playing music in general. Gangawaiian and rock is a vehicle for youth to flex their angst. Most young people are preoccupied with a struggle for independance and find comfort in the mass movement.
When I was a kid, everyone around me was playing everything but hawaiian music. If you were a kid growing up with us, you would probably have made the same assumption you have now. Many of them are now prominent musicians in the hawaiian music industry. Now they only play hawaiian music and very little else. The earth turns in time. Wait!
Bottom line. Is there a difference between the kids of yesteryear to now? No!
|
Stay Tuned... |
|
|
|
RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2009 : 12:01:57 PM
|
Dont forget P.M. Jr, everyone has to learn first. Negative feelings towards those that could be learning simply is not right. All you will get from that is separation between you and those that cannot do what you can do. That is not going to help anyone.
Me, I play mostly note-for note. But, over time I have stared doing arrangements. Nothing great yet but I have only known about slack for four years. Remember too, most people just dont pick up an axe and beging to jam in a new style immediately. It is an evolution of experience, skill and respect. Thats why it is hard for me to read the opinion without giving you my opposite opinion.
Some of us--maybe less skilled, maybe not--try so hard P.M. Jr. Some of us are also trying not to cockaroach the art and know we are not ready (that would be me).
Also, not eveyone that everyone that plays note-for-note now, will stay that way.
Everything evolves. |
Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 02/04/2009 12:05:15 PM |
|
|
|
sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2009 : 12:39:20 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Or at the hula hui. Maybe you can join a halau -- bound to be oddah guyz, more and more guyz dancing hula, no shame. . .
That is a good idea Aunty. I wish I had more time, or at least a flexible work schedule so I could take classes @ UH and stuff like that.
That reminds me, when I used to play reggae, all three of the singers in the band played/sang Hawaiian music in their spare time. One guy played and sang for a halau and I think the other two were studying Hawaiian studies at UH. Anyhow, they were very good at both reggae and Hawaiian music... you just wouldn't know it if all you knew was that they played reggae... so yeah, I guess the two genres aren't mutually exclusive, if you know what I mean.
quote:
Originally posted by hikabe
When I was a kid, everyone around me was playing everything but hawaiian music. If you were a kid growing up with us, you would probably have made the same assumption you have now. Many of them are now prominent musicians in the hawaiian music industry. Now they only play hawaiian music and very little else. The earth turns in time. Wait!
I am sure that 10 years from now people will have a similar discussion.
"All the guys plsying Hawaiian music now were in Jawaiian/Reggae bands back in the day..."
|
|
|
|
cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2009 : 12:49:27 PM
|
| You go through phases in life. First you want to be just like your parents. Then you want to be just like your peers. Then you don't want to be like anybody else, especially your parents. Then you want to find others who are like you without having to compromise who you are. Then you just want to find one person who likes you for who you are. Finally you want to be just like your parents. Life is strange. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 02/04/2009 12:50:19 PM |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
